Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 30.05.2017, 20:47
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: CH
Posts: 10,918
Groaned at 2,041 Times in 1,124 Posts
Thanked 5,139 Times in 3,246 Posts
omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat
Re: The " neutral" Switzerland

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/12/14/wo...nazi-gold.html
Quote:
View Post
Can you back up what you Blobling about . I never heard where the "Swiss Government " had any thing to do with nazi gold or art work
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank omtatsat for this useful post:
  #22  
Old 30.05.2017, 21:18
cannut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: canada
Posts: 6,873
Groaned at 180 Times in 140 Posts
Thanked 6,130 Times in 3,363 Posts
cannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The " neutral" Switzerland

Wow your right :-) your funny .As fahr as I know banks in Switzerland are Privat institutions . Next your complaining about Swiss watches , chocolate and the army ,
knife
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank cannut for this useful post:
  #23  
Old 30.05.2017, 21:19
roegner's Avatar
Moderately Dutch
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,373
Groaned at 349 Times in 291 Posts
Thanked 12,378 Times in 5,952 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The " neutral" Switzerland

What did the Romans say? Si vis pacem para bellum
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank roegner for this useful post:
This user groans at roegner for this post:
  #24  
Old 30.05.2017, 21:31
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 11,749
Groaned at 297 Times in 254 Posts
Thanked 22,118 Times in 8,033 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The " neutral" Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
And their neutrality enabled them in the past to fill their banks with Nazi gold and works of art.
This argument is getting old.

Switzerland has, and always had, more than just banks. They sold weapons and ammo DURING WW2 to:
- Nazi Germany
- Italy
- England
- USA
and pretty much everyone else involved.

You want a fact you probably didn't know? Over one third of all Japanese planes shot down by Americans during WW2 were on the receiving end of Oerlikon guns made in Zurich. Delivering weapons to both sides of a war - that's exactly what Swiss neutrality was about.

And for the sake of the argument: You don't need jets to attack other countries. I think it's fairly unlikely that the Swiss will do so. You need them to defend your country and that includes to shoot down hi-jacked passenger planes before they are crashed into a city center or a nuclear facility. Sad but true.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #25  
Old 30.05.2017, 21:53
VFR on top's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Used to be Basel.
Posts: 1,115
Groaned at 34 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 2,482 Times in 922 Posts
VFR on top has a reputation beyond reputeVFR on top has a reputation beyond reputeVFR on top has a reputation beyond reputeVFR on top has a reputation beyond reputeVFR on top has a reputation beyond reputeVFR on top has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The " neutral" Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Orthogonal......can you not talk to just the intellectuals here
Why not? Seems like that is what we need more of these days.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/civil-d...end-1496071276
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank VFR on top for this useful post:
  #26  
Old 30.05.2017, 22:04
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 11,468
Groaned at 183 Times in 151 Posts
Thanked 12,870 Times in 6,731 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The " neutral" Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
In your opinion. There will be others who believe otherwise.
No kidding
And then there's you who doesn't have one ....

Quote:
View Post
Pretty much their WW2 strategy.

Invade? OK.
Will you win? Probably
Will it cost you more than you expect? Ducking right it will
Having an army probably saved us last time. As he was gonna get us on the way back. Thankfully he never came back this way.

Quote:
View Post
No, it was opportunism, greed, and lack of conscience.
And maybe some fear and insecurity. Next time we'll know better

Quote:
View Post
Fully independent and on its own. Neither influences the other nor can you make inferences from one to the other.
Well, actually orthogonal means: Intersecting or lying at right angles In orthogonal cutting, the cutting edge is perpendicular to the direction of tool travel. Or: Having perpendicular slopes or tangents at the point of intersection orthogonal curves ..... so I don't really know why you used that word either, except that it sounds cool (I'm all for if you can't convince them, confuse them).
Nosy as I am I did some research and found: << statistically independent
mental ability may be classified into several orthogonal … factors — O. D. Duncan>> ... which still didn't make sense to me.


As to being neutral and having an army: We got a lot to defend. And we will not let who ever roll all over us in real life
(we restrict that to verbally on EF )

Ah, and if we sell weapons to everybody, we know exactly what we are attacked with. Smart, no?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank curley for this useful post:
  #27  
Old 30.05.2017, 22:05
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 9,524
Groaned at 324 Times in 265 Posts
Thanked 13,796 Times in 7,121 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The " neutral" Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Why not? Seems like that is what we need more of these days.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/civil-d...end-1496071276
Lol.
Well, for sure not with everybody and not everywhere, isn't it. I guess they meant selective "politeness, decorum and respect".
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 31.05.2017, 00:56
xynth's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 823
Groaned at 35 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 1,956 Times in 565 Posts
xynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The " neutral" Switzerland

I'm surprised they want manned fighter planes instead of drones. Perhaps no drones of sufficient capability are for sale?

My gut feeling is that manned fighter planes are a thing of the past and will be grandfathered by drones. Training up and maintaining a fighter pilot is a very lengthy and expensive exercise. It is daft to put all the squishy meatbag in the nose of the thing that is going to get shot at. Put the meatbag in a heavily fortified bunker and let him fly the jet remotely. Doing so will also remove the requirement for all the life support and cockpit instrumentation in the plane itself.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank xynth for this useful post:
  #29  
Old 31.05.2017, 07:10
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: CH
Posts: 10,918
Groaned at 2,041 Times in 1,124 Posts
Thanked 5,139 Times in 3,246 Posts
omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat
Re: The " neutral" Switzerland

I would say exactly the opposite
Quote:
View Post
Why not? Seems like that is what we need more of these days.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/civil-d...end-1496071276
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 31.05.2017, 07:36
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,225
Groaned at 107 Times in 64 Posts
Thanked 2,041 Times in 680 Posts
Busby has a reputation beyond reputeBusby has a reputation beyond reputeBusby has a reputation beyond reputeBusby has a reputation beyond reputeBusby has a reputation beyond reputeBusby has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The " neutral" Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
I'm surprised they want manned fighter planes instead of drones. Perhaps no drones of sufficient capability are for sale?

My gut feeling is that manned fighter planes are a thing of the past and will be grandfathered by drones. Training up and maintaining a fighter pilot is a very lengthy and expensive exercise. It is daft to put all the squishy meatbag in the nose of the thing that is going to get shot at. Put the meatbag in a heavily fortified bunker and let him fly the jet remotely. Doing so will also remove the requirement for all the life support and cockpit instrumentation in the plane itself.



The lobbyists in Bern only want the best! - No, sorry, most expensive. Nor do they want a referendum getting in their way. Fxxx democracy.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Busby for this useful post:
  #31  
Old 31.05.2017, 07:58
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 219
Groaned at 81 Times in 40 Posts
Thanked 102 Times in 70 Posts
koblenz is considered unworthykoblenz is considered unworthykoblenz is considered unworthykoblenz is considered unworthy
Re: The " neutral" Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
What did the Romans say? Si vis pacem para bellum
Just because the Romans said that does not make it the optimum solution.

Si vis pacem, para pactum, if you want peace, agree to keep the peace... might be a better way to go...

for surely supplying arms to others fighting around you is only making matters worse, intensifying that fighting as well as increasing the risk of the fighting spilling over onto yourselves...
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 31.05.2017, 09:39
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 8,036
Groaned at 348 Times in 282 Posts
Thanked 10,394 Times in 5,493 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The " neutral" Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
I'm surprised they want manned fighter planes instead of drones. Perhaps no drones of sufficient capability are for sale?

My gut feeling is that manned fighter planes are a thing of the past and will be grandfathered by drones. Training up and maintaining a fighter pilot is a very lengthy and expensive exercise. It is daft to put all the squishy meatbag in the nose of the thing that is going to get shot at. Put the meatbag in a heavily fortified bunker and let him fly the jet remotely. Doing so will also remove the requirement for all the life support and cockpit instrumentation in the plane itself.
Sounds cool. Until your radio gets jammed and the steering signals blocked.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #33  
Old 31.05.2017, 09:52
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 7,883
Groaned at 284 Times in 213 Posts
Thanked 17,646 Times in 6,197 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The " neutral" Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Sounds cool. Until your radio gets jammed and the steering signals blocked.
imagine what all would happen if the US would stop the GPS satellites...
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 31.05.2017, 10:11
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 14,988
Groaned at 474 Times in 379 Posts
Thanked 21,327 Times in 8,747 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The " neutral" Switzerland

Quote:
View Post

Having an army probably saved us last time.
No, the allied forces saved Switzerland last time.

An invasion and occupation of Switzerland was very much on the agenda.

The Swiss having an army just meant it would have taken longer.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #35  
Old 31.05.2017, 10:59
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 8,036
Groaned at 348 Times in 282 Posts
Thanked 10,394 Times in 5,493 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The " neutral" Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
imagine what all would happen if the US would stop the GPS satellites...
Aren't there non-US GPS satellites these days also?
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 31.05.2017, 11:10
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 12,257
Groaned at 93 Times in 84 Posts
Thanked 18,719 Times in 8,303 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The " neutral" Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Aren't there non-US GPS satellites these days also?
There are GLONASS, Galileo, BeiDou, and some local ones (So more LPS than GPS). But none of this is under Swiss control. Means they are of no use in any conflict which Switzerland would be involved.

Switzerland should any way first invest in surface to air missiles and establish a better ground based air defense against any flying object. At the moment anything higher than 3000 to 5000 meters can not be attacked from the ground.

PS: The crazy thing is, that based on past behavior and experiences the U.S. is the most likely military adversary Switzerland faces
__________________
"Okay, I just hope we don't wake up on Mars or something surrounded by millions of little squashy guys."

Last edited by aSwissInTheUS; 31.05.2017 at 11:24.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #37  
Old 31.05.2017, 11:10
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 11,749
Groaned at 297 Times in 254 Posts
Thanked 22,118 Times in 8,033 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The " neutral" Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Aren't there non-US GPS satellites these days also?
The Europeans have the Gallileo system, the Russians have one, the Chinese have one... but all our mobile phones, SatNavs and other gadgets typically use the US satellites.

P.S.: I think removing the human element from fighter jets makes very much sense but will only happen in the near future in scenarios where you have absolute air superiority - in other words will the drones not fight against armies with somewhat advanced electronic counter attack systems... or fall out of the skies.

They are a great tool to terrorize some goat herders in the Hindukush or Yemen though (and call them the terrorists instead...).
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #38  
Old 31.05.2017, 11:43
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 11,468
Groaned at 183 Times in 151 Posts
Thanked 12,870 Times in 6,731 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The " neutral" Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
No, the allied forces saved Switzerland last time.

An invasion and occupation of Switzerland was very much on the agenda.

The Swiss having an army just meant it would have taken longer.
Cute, by quoting only half of my sentence it looks like you corrected me and you're right.
Had you quoted the entire sentence it would show that you say the same thing I said

quote curley:<<Having an army probably saved us last time. As he was gonna get us on the way back. Thankfully he never came back this way.>>
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 31.05.2017, 12:00
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 29,128
Groaned at 2,025 Times in 1,522 Posts
Thanked 34,679 Times in 16,472 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The " neutral" Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
imagine what all would happen if the US would stop the GPS satellites...
They'd all fall to earth and land on our heads?

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #40  
Old 31.05.2017, 12:02
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 14,988
Groaned at 474 Times in 379 Posts
Thanked 21,327 Times in 8,747 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The " neutral" Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Cute, by quoting only half of my sentence it looks like you corrected me and you're right.
Had you quoted the entire sentence it would show that you say the same thing I said

quote curley:<<Having an army probably saved us last time. As he was gonna get us on the way back. Thankfully he never came back this way.>>
Yes, okay, it was a mixture of both - plus a bit of Sepp Blatter style finance to the Nazis.

But, ultimately, the way the war went wasn't luck - it was force, strategy, sacrifice and a great loss of life* which prevented Switzerland being invaded.

*Not Swiss ones which is the point I'm trying to make.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Switzerland: how to be rude with "compliments" and "humour" Guest Daily life 109 27.12.2016 22:06
Is "Kindern" the plural of "Kind" in German ? Simon81 Language corner 11 09.03.2014 23:48
My Personal "Intro" in the "Leaving Switzerland" Forum Textoch Leaving Switzerland 14 16.09.2013 22:50


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 15:38.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0