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Old 19.10.2017, 20:37
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Re: Initiative for organ donation

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On a related note, I just read this that says that in practice many UK registered organ doners' bits are not being used due to family's not giving consent, even though they don't legally need it. Ridiculous - if someone's gone to the effort to register the family shouldn't have any say in the decision. Anyone know the current situation here?
Seems to be typical British fudging of the issue.

"Rachel, 17, from Stoke-on-Trent, wants to be an organ donor, but is concerned that her family do not support her wishes.

She told 5 live: "I wasn't aware when I signed up that your family had to be supportive of your decision. It seems like, well, what's the point of signing up if it could be overruled anyway?

"It does worry me because, if I died now, my mum does make the main decision. I hope I can trust her to make the right one."

When somebody dies who is on the Organ Donation Register, specialist nurses from NHS Blood and Transplant work with their family.

If relatives object, nurses will encourage them to accept their loved one's decision, and make it clear that they do not have the legal right to override it.

However, in practice, if a family still refuses, the donation does not go ahead."

Why do your family have to support your decision about what's done with your body parts after you die? Your body, your decision. If they have no legal right to override the donor's wishes then why the hell are they asked in the first place?

Of course, people should discuss with their family members what they want to happen, but even if they don't family shouldn't be allowed to override a donor's wishes.
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  #42  
Old 19.10.2017, 20:45
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Re: Initiative for organ donation

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"Rachel, 17..."

Why do your family have to support your decision about what's done with your body parts after you die? Your body, your decision.
Not if you are under-age.

Tom
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  #43  
Old 19.10.2017, 20:57
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Re: Initiative for organ donation

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Not if you are under-age.

Tom
Unfortunately, it will still apply when she's 18+ it seems.
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  #44  
Old 19.10.2017, 21:36
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Re: Initiative for organ donation

Around 1,480 people are on the organ transplant waiting list in Switzerland - https://www.thelocal.ch/20171017/org...tem-to-opt-out

Approximately 6,500 people in the UK are on the organ transplant waiting list - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7984021.html

More than 93,000 people are on the organ transplant waiting list in the US - https://www.newscientist.com/article...or-loved-ones/

When my friend's dad died suddenly 6 yrs ago, 8 people benefitted from the transplant of his organs.
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Old 19.10.2017, 22:45
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Re: Initiative for organ donation

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Why do your family have to support your decision about what's done with your body parts after you die? Your body, your decision. If they have no legal right to override the donor's wishes then why the hell are they asked in the first place?
I suppose people are squeamish about dead bodies, but I agree with you.
The dead person's wishes are binding in Switzerland, but unless someone contests it in front of a judge, the family's wishes will override the deceased's.
There was an interesting case where a divorced woman living in Zurich wanted her body buried in Zurich. When she died, her ex husband and children tried to have the body cremated and the ashes sent to Milan where they live. The court ended up ruling that the woman has to be buried in Zurich, as per the woman's wishes.
Unfortunately, by the time a court can be reached, the organs are probably no longer suitable for transplantation. :/
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  #46  
Old 20.10.2017, 08:04
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Re: Initiative for organ donation

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...

I'm probably going to be dropped off at a recycling center. The accumulated metal from working on stuff in my hands alone must be worth something to someone!
I've got about 5000CHF worth of titanium holding my neck vertebrae in place.

The next logical step is to reintroduce the death penalty. The arguments about what happens if the court gets it wrong is weakened when the death of one person means survival or extended life for many. Larry Niven wrote about the effect on society once that step is taken.
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  #47  
Old 20.10.2017, 08:20
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Re: Initiative for organ donation

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I've got about 5000CHF worth of titanium holding my neck vertebrae in place.

The next logical step is to reintroduce the death penalty. The arguments about what happens if the court gets it wrong is weakened when the death of one person means survival or extended life for many. Larry Niven wrote about the effect on society once that step is taken.
given that the world is quite overpopulated, that doesn't really make sense
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Old 21.10.2017, 10:50
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Re: Initiative for organ donation

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I've got about 5000CHF worth of titanium holding my neck vertebrae in place.

The next logical step is to reintroduce the death penalty. The arguments about what happens if the court gets it wrong is weakened when the death of one person means survival or extended life for many. Larry Niven wrote about the effect on society once that step is taken.
Does that mean you are going to the scrapyard when you die?
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  #49  
Old 21.10.2017, 14:30
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Re: Initiative for organ donation

Just cannot see how anyone can object to an 'opt out' system - if it is well publicised and out in the open, and the system makes it easy to opt out if desired. !?!

However, I'd go one step further- as stated here before. Opt out, and be clear that you will be at the bottom of the list fro receiving- if others who have not opted-out need that kidney and doctors have to make a choice between equally good recipients and outcomes.
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Old 21.10.2017, 22:43
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Re: Initiative for organ donation

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Does that mean you are going to the scrapyard when you die?
He'll be recycled.

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Just cannot see how anyone can object to an 'opt out' system - if it is well publicised and out in the open, and the system makes it easy to opt out if desired. !?!

However, I'd go one step further- as stated here before. Opt out, and be clear that you will be at the bottom of the list fro receiving- if others who have not opted-out need that kidney and doctors have to make a choice between equally good recipients and outcomes.
Well, I shall object!
I want to decide what I DO want. Not be on my toes all the time, trying to be alert of all the things I might have to say no to. Because what will be next?!?

What was the slogan re abortion? "This is my body". Darn right it is. If I want to donate it, I carry a card. If I don't, I don't. And even more: What ever I want done with my body after death (and during life as well ..... just in case there are any ideas I haven't heard about yet) I do not want to have defend the decision.

I seem to be the only one who thinks she's about to live in a science fiction movie.
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Old 22.10.2017, 06:50
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Re: Initiative for organ donation

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However, I'd go one step further- as stated here before. Opt out, and be clear that you will be at the bottom of the list fro receiving- if others who have not opted-out need that kidney and doctors have to make a choice between equally good recipients and outcomes.
Couldn’t agree more with this bit. It’s the tiniest sacrifice you can make to give back to society - donating something you no longer need and won’t feel any loss from. If you can’t even do that, then you should not expect society to prioritize giving to you, either.
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  #52  
Old 22.10.2017, 06:58
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Re: Initiative for organ donation

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Does that mean you are going to the scrapyard when you die?
Probably not. The 5K is mostly the cost of installation. The actual amount of Titanium would barely be enough to make an alternator tensioner, the screws are only #4 thread, and they're a bit long for most automotive uses. (And Titanium is bugger me difficult to work with.)
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  #53  
Old 22.10.2017, 10:53
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Re: Initiative for organ donation

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However, I'd go one step further- as stated here before. Opt out, and be clear that you will be at the bottom of the list fro receiving- if others who have not opted-out need that kidney and doctors have to make a choice between equally good recipients and outcomes.
You are forcing the choice to donate as surely as buying a place on the list.

Make no mistake, I am in favor of the opt out strategy, but i find this restriction inappropriate.
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Old 22.10.2017, 10:58
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Re: Initiative for organ donation

1 organ available for 3 suitable recipients - all 3 the same sort of age, same sort of prognosis, same family background - so no other way to decide apart from tossing for it- I'd say choosing the one who is a donor rather thand the 2 who have opted out is fair enough.

Curley- you right to object of course- and simple enough to opt out- if they changed to 'opt out' it would be well publicised over quite a period of time, with an easy system including internet- just a click of the mouse. I have never ever met anyone who has loved a loved one, a child, a sibbling, a best friend- and watched them slowly die as no donor is available, object.
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  #55  
Old 22.10.2017, 11:12
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Re: Initiative for organ donation

I would imagine that anyone opposed to organ donation is also opposed to receiving one, so no problem.

I would also imagine that anyone who needs a transplant also would not make a suitable donor.

Tom
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  #56  
Old 22.10.2017, 11:14
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Re: Initiative for organ donation

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He'll be recycled.

Well, I shall object!
I want to decide what I DO want. Not be on my toes all the time, trying to be alert of all the things I might have to say no to. Because what will be next?!?
I think you're joking a little, but it's a real consideration. How many people do we get posting on the Forum about auto-renewal of contracts, cancellation clauses, etc. This is in documentation you (supposedly) have to read and sign. How would the education and decision happen? When you register at the Gemeinde they tell you the policy and you decide there?

I wasn't aware this was the system in the UK - Is it working well, or are there lots of problems with families that "didn't know" and then protest?

Also how does it work when the person has requested the body be donated to science? We still need "intact" bodies to study. Does organ donation trump science in such a situation? Will folks have to carry a science card instead of a donation card? I ask because two of my relatives (in the States, mind) have signed agreements to give their bodies to the local uni, and the uni is expecting all the parts so that medical students can learn.

I also saw a post earlier about fears that doctors would not try to save you if they felt your organs could be used for others. Or that you might not be "really" dead yet. As irrational as that sounds, it's a widespread fear. See just a few articles for example:

https://www.snopes.com/medical/emergent/donor.asp

https://gizmodo.com/5892470/the-dark...an-organ-donor and the article it links to in a readable form instead of behind a paywall

http://livingdonorsonline.org/ldosmf...p?topic=1616.0

Edit to add: The above aren't my point of view, but I think it helps to understand where others are coming from if you want to change their collective minds.
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Old 22.10.2017, 14:04
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Re: Initiative for organ donation

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I wasn't aware this was the system in the UK - Is it working well, or are there lots of problems with families that "didn't know" and then protest?
The UK still operates the donor card system at the moment, so you have to 'opt in' as it were. This relies heavily on other people knowing your wishes and/or the donor card being present should the need for it arise.
Lots of potential donors are not used because their wishes were not known beforehand.

They are currently looking into the possibility of making it the opt out system.
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Old 22.10.2017, 14:13
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Re: Initiative for organ donation

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The UK still operates the donor card system at the moment, so you have to 'opt in' as it were. This relies heavily on other people knowing your wishes and/or the donor card being present should the need for it arise.
Lots of potential donors are not used because their wishes were not known beforehand.

They are currently looking into the possibility of making it the opt out system.
You can register your donor status online so in the event of your death they know there is a donor card in existence. Don't know if this is legally binding and probably wouldn't over-ride the wishes of the next-of-kin but at the very least it will indicate your wishes at the time of your death.
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  #59  
Old 22.10.2017, 15:08
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Re: Initiative for organ donation

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How would the education and decision happen? When you register at the Gemeinde they tell you the policy and you decide there?
I think the common sense approach would be for this to be linked to your medical insurance, so that the question is on your forms and your decision held on a central register.

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I also saw a post earlier about fears that doctors would not try to save you if they felt your organs could be used for others. Or that you might not be "really" dead yet. As irrational as that sounds, it's a widespread fear.
It's largely based upon 4 factors: Urban myths, cultural differences, religious beliefs and lack of medical understanding (particularly regarding brain death, which is even accepted by clergy as being the point of death).

Many of us probably know someone who's had a transplant and their life has been extended for decades. In my case, a friend had a kidney transplant and survived another 25yrs, long enough to see his 2 small children grow into adulthood.

Another friend has long campaigned to change the perception of all medical transplants, including blood and stem cells, within the Asian community that she belongs to. This was all sparked by her brother being gravely ill with Chron's Disease and only having a tiny group of potential donors because of the lack of understanding and acceptence within their culture. She made incredible progress over a few years, and various NHS trusts have also promoted education within ethnic communities, but there's still a huge issue with mixed ethnicity patients not being able to find a match. I'm being very specific using the term 'mixed ethnicity' because my family went through the testing for a stem cell donor in August, and it was a real wake up call to be told that a lad with Greek and British parents would most likely need a donor with the same ethnic background.

Organ donation is not the be all and end all to the recipient's survival. There's still a lot of work and research to be done on conditions such as HLH (Hemophagocytic Lymphohistiocytosis), which is research that would affect the survival of many patients with reduced immunity, not just transplant patients.
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Old 22.10.2017, 18:23
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Re: Initiative for organ donation

3Wishes- for newcomers yes, that could be done easily when you register at the Gemeinde,/commune- they ask about religion, they could easily ask about organ donation, or give a leaflet giving the info and how to opt-out if desired.

For people who live here- a good and clear publicity campaign over a period of 6 months or so- would do the trick nicely.


Organ donation is also moving forwards in many ways- with non matching donations opening many more opportunities. People close to us have recently been involved in a totally successful kidney donation which was non-matching, as a match was not available.

As for those who do not wish do donate being not wanting to receive- you'd be VERY surprised. As for potential organ recipients not being able to donate- just depends on the condition- it is perfectly possible to donate corneas, for instance, even if you have other health problems, in many cases.
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