Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04.11.2017, 13:07
Helvetia1967's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Geneva
Posts: 82
Groaned at 11 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 49 Times in 26 Posts
Helvetia1967 is considered unworthyHelvetia1967 is considered unworthyHelvetia1967 is considered unworthyHelvetia1967 is considered unworthy
Second rape claim hits high-profile Swiss Islamic scholar

Late last week, another claim of sexual assault by Geneva-born Islamic scholar Tariq Ramadan surfaced, according to the French newspaper Le Monde. The woman, who came forward anonymously, claims she was assaulted in a hotel room in Lyon in 2009.

http://lenews.ch/2017/11/03/second-r...lamic-scholar/
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04.11.2017, 13:56
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Second rape claim hits high-profile Swiss Islamic scholar

Anonymous claims should just be thrown in the bin.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
The following 4 users groan at for this post:
  #3  
Old 04.11.2017, 14:43
Helvetia1967's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Geneva
Posts: 82
Groaned at 11 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 49 Times in 26 Posts
Helvetia1967 is considered unworthyHelvetia1967 is considered unworthyHelvetia1967 is considered unworthyHelvetia1967 is considered unworthy
Re: Second rape claim hits high-profile Swiss Islamic scholar

Quote:
Anonymous claims should just be thrown in the bin.
Who are you ?
Reply With Quote
The following 15 users would like to thank Helvetia1967 for this useful post:
This user groans at Helvetia1967 for this post:
  #4  
Old 04.11.2017, 14:59
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Second rape claim hits high-profile Swiss Islamic scholar

Quote:
View Post
Who are you ?
Someone who does not use anonymity to accuse you or anybody else of rape.

So your question is irrelevant.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 04.11.2017, 15:03
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Second rape claim hits high-profile Swiss Islamic scholar

Quote:
Anonymous claims should just be thrown in the bin.
Why?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04.11.2017, 15:11
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Zürich
Posts: 910
Groaned at 83 Times in 66 Posts
Thanked 1,192 Times in 581 Posts
YuropFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeYuropFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeYuropFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeYuropFlyer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Second rape claim hits high-profile Swiss Islamic scholar

Quote:
Anonymous claims should just be thrown in the bin.
I won't say you're wrong. I won't say you're right.

The problem is that you won't be able to make a claim in person and stay in anonymity. If you, for example, make a claim at KESB the person in question will see who actually claimed that he/she is having such problem.

It shouldn't hit media. That's the problem. If you claim and go public about person X (usually a celebrity) having done thing Y to you, you shouldn't be able to stay in shadows. But if you actually go to the police and tell them that you're suspecting that your neighbour is, as an example, a drug dealer, your name shouldn't be on the report that he - and possibly everyone else - can see.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank YuropFlyer for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 04.11.2017, 15:14
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Second rape claim hits high-profile Swiss Islamic scholar

Quote:
Why?
Rape is a very heavy accusation, and it's hard if not impossible to defend against anonymous claims of rape, to many people who are falsely accused know how the public will never forget and the accusation will stick unto you.

So papers should not publish such accusations based on anonymous sources, since verifying them is often hard if not impossible, but the damage is already done.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04.11.2017, 15:22
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Second rape claim hits high-profile Swiss Islamic scholar

Add-on: I understood from the OP that the woman made the accusation while remaining anonymous, the article in LeNews tells us she came forward anonymously, the source article in LeMonde however teaches us that she is not anonymous and filed an official complaint, but wishes to have her identity unknown to the press, which is something I can perfectly understand.

That makes it a different story and not an anonymous claim.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04.11.2017, 15:23
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Second rape claim hits high-profile Swiss Islamic scholar

Quote:
Rape is a very heavy accusation, and it's hard if not impossible to defend against anonymous claims of rape, to many people who are falsely accused know how the public will never forget and the accusation will stick unto you.

So papers should not publish such accusations based on anonymous sources, since verifying them is often hard if not impossible, but the damage is already done.
Why do you think some claims are made anonymously? Damage, certainly.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04.11.2017, 15:43
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Second rape claim hits high-profile Swiss Islamic scholar

Quote:
Why do you think some claims are made anonymously? Damage, certainly.
So many reasons for that, varying from fear to seeking sensation.

If I would send an anonymous letter to a newspaper accusing you of rape, do you think the paper should publish this or should they refrain from doing so?

In this situation the linked article is wrong, she did not come forward anonymously, she filed an official case but does not want the press to know her name, something which is very normal in these cases since police never gives the names of those sexually assaulted to the police (in a civilised world)
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04.11.2017, 19:45
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 13,135
Groaned at 218 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 15,264 Times in 7,847 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Second rape claim hits high-profile Swiss Islamic scholar

Never heard about the guy.
From the article:
<< “In recent days we have witnessed an orchestrated media campaign of interviews and accusatory articles targeting Mr. Tariq Ramadan. Media time is not that of the legal system. Under no circumstances can the former replace the latter. We have expressly requested that Mr. Ramadan refrain from making any statements.”>>

I agree.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank curley for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 05.11.2017, 01:23
Castro's Avatar
à la mod
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ZG
Posts: 5,624
Groaned at 124 Times in 100 Posts
Thanked 16,905 Times in 5,370 Posts
Castro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Second rape claim hits high-profile Swiss Islamic scholar

Quote:
View Post
Never heard about the guy.
He is Professor of Contemporary Islamic Studies at the University of Oxford and a leading proponent of a moderate European Islamic identity. It would be a great shame if these accusations turn out to be true but he is innocent until proven guilty.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Castro for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 05.11.2017, 09:28
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 10,830
Groaned at 346 Times in 282 Posts
Thanked 15,840 Times in 8,090 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Second rape claim hits high-profile Swiss Islamic scholar

Quote:
Add-on: I understood from the OP that the woman made the accusation while remaining anonymous, the article in LeNews tells us she came forward anonymously, the source article in LeMonde however teaches us that she is not anonymous and filed an official complaint, but wishes to have her identity unknown to the press, which is something I can perfectly understand.

That makes it a different story and not an anonymous claim.
If she is allowed to remain anonymous, why not the accused? Because he's a public figure and even if the accusation proves to be false this will stick to his name (you know x the rapist) till the end of days.
Of course one wonders what are the sources of media (police?) and whom they serve....I have seen this so many times - once it's out in the media it doesn't matter if one is guilty or not (especially when some stereotypes fit into the picture).
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 05.11.2017, 09:44
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 13,448
Groaned at 1,246 Times in 828 Posts
Thanked 19,598 Times in 7,569 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Second rape claim hits high-profile Swiss Islamic scholar

Anonymous claims should never be publicised imo, what right does the media have to drag a name through the mud until proven guilty? The UK is absolutely the worst for this, the privacy violations that occur on a daily basis are horrendous.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Chuff for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 05.11.2017, 11:00
me.anon's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: thun
Posts: 2,168
Groaned at 49 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 2,864 Times in 1,389 Posts
me.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Second rape claim hits high-profile Swiss Islamic scholar

IMO people who are of age and the claim to be victims of serious crimes must, as a matter of duty, report these to the police at the earliest possible opportunity.
It helps protects others who might otherwise be victims of the same perpetrator and helps to ensure that justice is done.
That is justice for the accuser as well as the perpetrator.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05.11.2017, 11:49
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Second rape claim hits high-profile Swiss Islamic scholar

Quote:
View Post
IMO people who are of age and the claim to be victims of serious crimes must, as a matter of duty, report these to the police at the earliest possible opportunity.
It helps protects others who might otherwise be victims of the same perpetrator and helps to ensure that justice is done.
That is justice for the accuser as well as the perpetrator.
Of age?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05.11.2017, 11:57
me.anon's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: thun
Posts: 2,168
Groaned at 49 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 2,864 Times in 1,389 Posts
me.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Second rape claim hits high-profile Swiss Islamic scholar

Quote:
Of age?
Not a minor.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05.11.2017, 11:58
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 13,448
Groaned at 1,246 Times in 828 Posts
Thanked 19,598 Times in 7,569 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Second rape claim hits high-profile Swiss Islamic scholar

Quote:
Of age?
.
Pretty obvious he means legal age (ienot a minor), unless you can think of any other context relevant to the discussion?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05.11.2017, 12:22
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Second rape claim hits high-profile Swiss Islamic scholar

Quote:
View Post
He is Professor of Contemporary Islamic Studies at the University of Oxford and a leading proponent of a moderate European Islamic identity. It would be a great shame if these accusations turn out to be true but he is innocent until proven guilty.
"A great shame". Especially for his victims.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 05.11.2017, 12:36
me.anon's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: thun
Posts: 2,168
Groaned at 49 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 2,864 Times in 1,389 Posts
me.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Second rape claim hits high-profile Swiss Islamic scholar

Quote:
View Post
.
Pretty obvious he means legal age (ienot a minor), unless you can think of any other context relevant to the discussion?
Indeed. The expression has the essentially same meaning in British and American usage:
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/di...english/of-age
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Prominent high profile EF member and mod of the hearts trapped in a tunnel lost_inbroad Daily life 47 24.06.2014 15:11
Eurozone unemployment hits another record high cdcdoc International affairs/politics 0 08.01.2013 19:35
FYI women in Zug-second rape attempt one at 10:30pm, the other 2:30am Guest Swiss politics/news 0 11.10.2011 13:09


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:16.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0