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  #81  
Old 28.05.2018, 18:47
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Re: Why is SVP popular?

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Not sure if they check but the SVP accepts Swiss citizens only according to their statutes.
are you sure?

maybe some local groups have such a statute but I can find no such statement in the statutes of the national party.
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  #82  
Old 28.05.2018, 19:20
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Re: Why is SVP popular?

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fascism is the combination of government and private companies. Right wing parties are for small government. Therefore fascism is a LEFT WING IDEAL. CORPORATE WELFARE = FASCISM.
The far Left and far right have much more in common than they know.

What's also funny and awkward is when their politics align. For example on the new referendum regarding blocking offshore casinos in CH. They hate each other, but yet sign on the same petition, LOL. People have to stop blindly following parties and actually look at the issue, and form their own opinion (I know, it's difficult to read and think for many people )



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A broad alliance of youth wings from the political right to the left – the Swiss People’s Party, the Radicals, the Liberal Greens and the Greens – collected more than the 50,000 signatures necessary to force a nationwide vote.
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  #83  
Old 28.05.2018, 22:27
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Re: Why is SVP popular?

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on the new referendum regarding blocking offshore casinos in CH...
As I understood it, these signatures were collected by the youth sections of the parties. They do not always share the same views as their mother party.
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  #84  
Old 28.05.2018, 22:57
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Re: Why is SVP popular?

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The far Left and far right have much more in common than they know.

What's also funny and awkward is when their politics align. For example on the new referendum regarding blocking offshore casinos in CH. They hate each other, but yet sign on the same petition, LOL. People have to stop blindly following parties and actually look at the issue, and form their own opinion (I know, it's difficult to read and think for many people )
This doesn't make any sense. Wanna rephrase it?

Apparently (I haven't studied it yet) this subject bothers loads of people throughout Switzerland, accross many parties. So much so, that they even allied to get the signatures (according to your post).

BECAUSE people make up their own mind to every subject that is brought up for voting, it often happens that people vote "with parties" they basically wouldn't join. They don't vote because of the party but because of the subject.

Also parties in Switzerland don't just hand out a voting advice because "this is our theme, so this is how we and all our followers are supposed to vote". (Unlike in other countries).
And most Swiss are actually not member of a party. In the old days you had to join one if you wanted to go into politics actively, even that has changed now.

There's been a time or two I voted in agreement with SVP but believe me, that was pure coincidence.
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  #85  
Old 28.05.2018, 23:01
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Re: Why is SVP popular?

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As I understood it, these signatures were collected by the youth sections of the parties. They do not always share the same views as their mother party.
True they do not share the same views but I find that is positive.
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  #86  
Old 29.05.2018, 02:00
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Re: Why is SVP popular?

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What's also funny and awkward is when their politics align. For example on the new referendum regarding blocking offshore casinos in CH. They hate each other, but yet sign on the same petition, LOL.
It happens quite often actually, especially on popular initiatives, that supporters come together from totally different parts of the political spectrum and work together.

Happened on Brexit too by the way.
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  #87  
Old 29.05.2018, 12:35
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Re: Why is SVP popular?

Anything that is extremist, whatever to the left or to the right, is tragedy.

There is nothing extremist on SVP's views. I think that it is mostly common sense on free markets, and individual liberties and responsibilities.

One of the few things that I am totally against regarding SVP's policies is protectionism and subsides for farmers.

That being said, most of the countries do the same in a much larger scale and for an array of industries, thus although it's far from ideal, the situation in CH is not bad either.
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  #88  
Old 29.05.2018, 13:33
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Re: Why is SVP popular?

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are you sure?

maybe some local groups have such a statute but I can find no such statement in the statutes of the national party.
Yes I am. Kind of, tbh.

The Federal SVP explicitly says so in §4 though in reality you're member of a Kantonal party or lower, which in turn is made up of even smaller parties (region, section, or commune). Can't be bothered to check but the assumption that the same applies to the lower level parties seems safe, even if they fail to mention that requirement. It's the same principle as the one that says Federal law overrides Kantonal and communal law but never the other way round.

Last edited by Urs Max; 29.05.2018 at 13:46.
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Old 29.05.2018, 13:40
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Re: Why is SVP popular?

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The far Left and far right have much more in common than they know.
And which of those mentioned in your quote, exactly, would be far left? Hyperbole much?
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  #90  
Old 29.05.2018, 13:45
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Re: Why is SVP popular?

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This doesn't make any sense. Wanna rephrase it?
Sure. What I mean is that politics has become more polarized, and more "trench warfare". Many people take their party's stand on a position and fight to the death. Not just SVP, but SP, Green, etc. If you think for yourself and differ from your party line one one issue, you are attacked by your own party. I've seen moderate Liberals who are in favor of immigration control shut down by their own group. I've seen right-wing people come out in favor of gun control, and they get disowned. The trench-warfare crap has to stop.
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  #91  
Old 29.05.2018, 14:02
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Re: Why is SVP popular?

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Sure. What I mean is that politics has become more polarized, and more "trench warfare". Many people take their party's stand on a position and fight to the death. Not just SVP, but SP, Green, etc. If you think for yourself and differ from your party line one one issue, you are attacked by your own party. I've seen moderate Liberals who are in favor of immigration control shut down by their own group. I've seen right-wing people come out in favor of gun control, and they get disowned. The trench-warfare crap has to stop.
This I can agree with.

In Switzerland I have often seen, that a party has advised how to vote and it was mentioned that Mr. suchandsuch and Mrs. idon'tknow of that party do not agree with it and often why = what their arguments against it are. (Which can actually be helpful when pondering a subject).
I have not seen or heard, that they were shut down by their own party.
(Attacked, yes, but somehow lots of people tend to attack the ones who don't agree with them. )

Did I miss observing that happening or are you talking in general (world-wide)?
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  #92  
Old 29.05.2018, 15:02
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Re: Why is SVP popular?

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Did I miss observing that happening or are you talking in general (world-wide)?
Yes, I was speaking more generally. I agree, Switzerland is fortunately still not too bad with this.
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  #93  
Old 29.05.2018, 16:07
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Re: Why is SVP popular?

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One of the few things that I am totally against regarding SVP's policies is protectionism and subsides for farmers.

That being said, most of the countries do the same in a much larger scale and for an array of industries, thus although it's far from ideal, the situation in CH is not bad either.
I for once agree with your view that the protectionism is bad. I disagree that other countries do it on a larger scale. There is a load of protectionism that nobody seems to discuss in Switzerland. Its accepted based on "it has always been like this".


Simple example: The Swiss salt monopoly. From table salt to the salt used on roads in winter... its an official monopoly. Here is a lobby group explaining why this is a good thing. And apparently a matter of national security. Better sit down before reading.


http://www.salz.ch/en/about-us/the-salt-monopoly
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Old 29.05.2018, 16:32
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Re: Why is SVP popular?

To my opinion the SVP is typically the party for narrow minded, nationalist, shortsighted, scary, xenophobic, protectionist rural Swiss.
It is in the same league as populist parties like the Dutch PVV (you know with Geert "blondy" Wilders), Italian Lega Nord, British UKIP, French Front National etc. etc.
The SVP typically focuses on emotions like "fear for the unknown", nativism and other typical right-wing themes. The SVP voters are, imho, blind for the fact that the prosperity in CH is partly/greatly thanks to the many foreigners that work hard here. It is true however that the SVP fits very well to the traditional Swiss mentality. When a nation of people was isolated by mountains for such a long time, where people from one valley would hardly understand the people from the neighbouring valley, it is to be expected that xenophobia is endemic.
Also the visual language that is use on posters and billboard, coloured red, white and black, clearly appeals to Nazi sympathies.
All in all THEY are the Swiss it is THEIR country, and THEY should do with it what THEY like...
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  #95  
Old 29.05.2018, 16:36
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Re: Why is SVP popular?

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I for once agree with your view that the protectionism is bad. I disagree that other countries do it on a larger scale. There is a load of protectionism that nobody seems to discuss in Switzerland. Its accepted based on "it has always been like this".


Simple example: The Swiss salt monopoly. From table salt to the salt used on roads in winter... its an official monopoly. Here is a lobby group explaining why this is a good thing. And apparently a matter of national security. Better sit down before reading.


http://www.salz.ch/en/about-us/the-salt-monopoly
Salt is 1CHF/KG in CH and 1EUR/KG in Germany. What's the problem?
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  #96  
Old 29.05.2018, 16:38
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Re: Why is SVP popular?

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To my opinion the SVP is typically the party for narrow minded, nationalist, shortsighted, scary, xenophobic, protectionist rural Swiss.
It is in the same league as populist parties like the Dutch PVV (you know with Geert "blondy" Wilders), Italian Lega Nord, British UKIP, French Front National etc. etc.
The SVP typically focuses on emotions like "fear for the unknown", nativism and other typical right-wing themes. The SVP voters are, imho, blind for the fact that the prosperity in CH is partly/greatly thanks to the many foreigners that work hard here. It is true however that the SVP fits very well to the traditional Swiss mentality. When a nation of people was isolated by mountains for such a long time, where people from one valley would hardly understand the people from the neighbouring valley, it is to be expected that xenophobia is endemic.
Also the visual language that is use on posters and billboard, coloured red, white and black, clearly appeals to Nazi sympathies.
All in all THEY are the Swiss it is THEIR country, and THEY should do with it what THEY like...
You look to me like the typical opponent of such parties who pleases to keep on shouting that WO III is around the corner if we vote for such parties, only willing to see one aspect of all they offer, and thus thinking that all people who support or vote such party must do so for only that reason.

And you call others narrow minded... you sir, are a joke.

Oh and there are differences between the parties, the PVV in the Netherlands is a joke since they do not have a plan for the whole spectrum which a parlement has to cover and avoid questions when asked about such, the SVP however does have such a plan and answers when asked.

And where does the SVP state that people who are actually helpful to society should not be allowed to enter the country?
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  #97  
Old 29.05.2018, 17:01
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Re: Why is SVP popular?

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Salt is 1CHF/KG in CH and 1EUR/KG in Germany. What's the problem?
This, and look at German protectionism for example.

In Bavaria, the police drive BMWs. BMW is a Bavarian company. But that must be a coincidence seeing they do a fair and transparent tendering process.

In Baden Württember the Police drive Mercedes. Mercdes Benz is a BW company.

In Niedersachen they drive VW. can you guess where VW is based?

So many coincidences.

But when the Italian police drive Fiats, that's corruption.
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  #98  
Old 29.05.2018, 17:05
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Re: Why is SVP popular?

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Salt is 1CHF/KG in CH and 1EUR/KG in Germany. What's the problem?
Umm, the German price is EUR 1.65/kg, EUR 1 is for only 600g.

Anyway, I buy it in Italy where it costs EUR 0.40/kg.

Tom
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Old 29.05.2018, 17:05
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Re: Why is SVP popular?

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Salt is 1CHF/KG in CH and 1EUR/KG in Germany. What's the problem?

Imported sea salt is easily 40% more expensive based on punitive taxes.


Other salt based products like dishwasher salt has even more warped prices. Because its illegal to import. Sure, the 1.35 CHF for a kg of big grain dish washer salt at Coop at home wont kill your bill vs the 71 cents in a German DM market for an international brand that isn't available in CH... but its a fact that the percentage is quite a difference. If you multiply that with the amount of salt your Gemeinde buys for winter do you end up paying more taxes in order to protect the jobs of a single for-profit company in CH.




Since you obviously wont trust me, take it from Ktipp... https://www.ktipp.ch/artikel/d/gesal...-dank-monopol/
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Old 29.05.2018, 17:14
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Re: Why is SVP popular?

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Umm, the German price is EUR 1.65/kg, EUR 1 is for only 600g.

Anyway, I buy it in Italy where it costs EUR 0.40/kg.

Tom
Kaufland Germany 500gr for 0,18 Euro
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