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  #41  
Old 11.07.2018, 15:55
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Re: Senate rejects ban on foreign funding for Swiss mosques

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First, a referendum is against a new law. As there is no law you can not start a referendum.
Second, a referendum would only need 50k signatures.
Third, the term you are looking for is a popular vote (generic) or initiative.
Fourth, it needs indeed 100k signatures from Swiss voters collected within 18 Months
Finally and most importantly apart from all this semantics, you do not have to be a Swiss voter to start a initiative or referendum.

So, do you only talk the talk, or also actually walk the walk and keep to your words?

See you soon here: https://www.bk.admin.ch/ch/d/pore/vi/vis_1_3_1_1.html
Not to mention, it would quickly be struck down as it violates the constitution, unless you expand the scope to ban all foreign religious funding.
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  #42  
Old 11.07.2018, 15:58
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Re: Senate rejects ban on foreign funding for Swiss mosques

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Like I said before: there is nothing stopping any Muslim gathering in a room with a group of friends, using books paid for by an uncle in Turkey or Bosnia. There's nothing you or anyone else can do to stop it.

Sucks, eh?
Same as with terror financing, organized crime, money laundering, illegal gambling. The law against it is there, it is nevertheless done, it is still forbidden, and one an then some establishments are raided, people drawn to court, and ... nothing happens.
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  #43  
Old 11.07.2018, 15:59
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Re: Senate rejects ban on foreign funding for Swiss mosques

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Not to mention, it would quickly be struck down as it violates the constitution, unless you expand the scope to ban all foreign religious funding.
An initiative is a change of the constitution. It can, by the virtue of its being, not be against the constitution.
Expect for the reason given in Art. 139 Abs. 3 https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...ndex.html#a139 (unless it tries to change that, I think the SVP is up to something in this regard)
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If the initiative fails to comply with the requirements of consistency of form, and of subject matter, or if it infringes mandatory provisions of international law, the Federal Assembly shall declare it to be invalid in whole or in part.
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  #44  
Old 11.07.2018, 16:00
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Re: Senate rejects ban on foreign funding for Swiss mosques

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Same as with terror financing, organized crime, money laundering, illegal gambling. The law against it there, it is nevertheless done, it is still forbidden, and one an then some establishments are raided, people drawn to court, and ... nothing happens.
Yes, all of those things are exactly the same. All mosques are central hubs for the terrorist vaults, the mafia's meeting rooms, and all the illegal poker in Switzerland.

Funnily enough, that would make them models of cohabitation!
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  #45  
Old 11.07.2018, 16:01
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Re: Senate rejects ban on foreign funding for Swiss mosques

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An initiative is a change of the constitution. It can, by the virtue of its being, not be against the constitution.
Yes, but you cant change the constitution to single out one religion detrimentally, any such change would have to apply to all religions.
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  #46  
Old 11.07.2018, 16:07
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Re: Senate rejects ban on foreign funding for Swiss mosques

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Not to mention, it would quickly be struck down as it violates the constitution, unless you expand the scope to ban all foreign religious funding.
A referendum vote creates an item of the constitution.

And yes, such an item could equally discriminate against Scientology, Mormonism, Jehovas Witnesses and other religious groups being funded from abroad.
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  #47  
Old 11.07.2018, 16:09
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Re: Senate rejects ban on foreign funding for Swiss mosques

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Yes, all of those things are exactly the same.
That isn't what SITUS is saying.
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  #48  
Old 11.07.2018, 16:17
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Re: Senate rejects ban on foreign funding for Swiss mosques

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A referendum vote creates an item of the constitution.
*sigh

...which would only pass if the amendment satisfies the basic right of the individual as detailed in title 2 of the Constitution.

And singling out a single religion would not pass that basic requirement.

So the only way the amendment makes it into the constitution is you you apply it to all religions.

Now, you try getting that one through.
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  #49  
Old 11.07.2018, 16:41
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Re: Senate rejects ban on foreign funding for Swiss mosques

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Not to mention, it would quickly be struck down as it violates the constitution, unless you expand the scope to ban all foreign religious funding.
Wrong.

Switzerland has no Verfassungsgericht as such, no court to annul a law that contradicts the constitution, or one part of the constitution that contradicts a higher ranking part.

While, if memory serves, the federal court has issued verdicts on the topic, it doesn't have the power to void such a law or parts of the constitution. So unless the federal parliament decides to act, or a Volksinitiative that removes the cotradition has been raised and accepted by the voters, its verdict is meaningless.
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Yes, but you cant change the constitution to single out one religion detrimentally, any such change would have to apply to all religions.
If criminal actions take place it doesn't matter in what surroundings they happen, be that Christian (pedophile priests anybody?) or Muslim, they're still criminal and will (should) be prosecuted.

Obviously an individual religion can be targeted, I remind you of the minaret ban. It just depends on how it's done.

Last edited by Urs Max; 11.07.2018 at 16:54.
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  #50  
Old 11.07.2018, 16:51
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Re: Senate rejects ban on foreign funding for Swiss mosques

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...which would only pass if the amendment satisfies the basic right of the individual as detailed in title 2 of the Constitution.

And singling out a single religion would not pass that basic requirement.

So the only way the amendment makes it into the constitution is you you apply it to all religions.
Nowhere in the Swiss Constitution does it say that an initiative must adhere to the rest of the constitution except for the stuff mentioned in Art. 139 Abs. 3 . (Linked and quoted above, so no need to do it again)

I could even propose the following change: Art. 4a, the national languages are all languages except those mentioned in Art. 4

Btw. it would be more a violation of Art. 8 Abs 2 but as we have corporate church tax which benefits some faiths only I do not see any discrimination beyond what already exists in this regards.

The Swiss voters are the highest institution and the constitutional giving body. They can change the constitution as they like. Nothing you can do against or were there a court where you could get a ruling. More crazily even a federal law can be "against" the constitution! Why? Because the Swiss voter have the final veto right against any new law or law change (referendum). If they do not wish a referendum or the referendum passes the new law becomes constitutional.

I may also point you to Art. 72 Abs. 3 of the current constitution or Art. 50 to 52 of the old constitution.
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  #51  
Old 11.07.2018, 18:28
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Re: Senate rejects ban on foreign funding for Swiss mosques

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All religion is voluntary.
"voluntary"
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  #52  
Old 11.07.2018, 18:52
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Re: Senate rejects ban on foreign funding for Swiss mosques

it is of course in two forward thinking Cantons NE and GE.
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