Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 11.07.2018, 16:55
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,029
Groaned at 249 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 2,159 Times in 997 Posts
J2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Senate rejects ban on foreign funding for Swiss mosques

Quote:
View Post
First, a referendum is against a new law. As there is no law you can not start a referendum.
Second, a referendum would only need 50k signatures.
Third, the term you are looking for is a popular vote (generic) or initiative.
Fourth, it needs indeed 100k signatures from Swiss voters collected within 18 Months
Finally and most importantly apart from all this semantics, you do not have to be a Swiss voter to start a initiative or referendum.

So, do you only talk the talk, or also actually walk the walk and keep to your words?

See you soon here: https://www.bk.admin.ch/ch/d/pore/vi/vis_1_3_1_1.html
Not to mention, it would quickly be struck down as it violates the constitution, unless you expand the scope to ban all foreign religious funding.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank J2488 for this useful post:
This user groans at J2488 for this post:
  #42  
Old 11.07.2018, 16:58
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 9,240
Groaned at 72 Times in 63 Posts
Thanked 13,810 Times in 6,159 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Senate rejects ban on foreign funding for Swiss mosques

Quote:
View Post
Like I said before: there is nothing stopping any Muslim gathering in a room with a group of friends, using books paid for by an uncle in Turkey or Bosnia. There's nothing you or anyone else can do to stop it.

Sucks, eh?
Same as with terror financing, organized crime, money laundering, illegal gambling. The law against it is there, it is nevertheless done, it is still forbidden, and one an then some establishments are raided, people drawn to court, and ... nothing happens.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #43  
Old 11.07.2018, 16:59
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 9,240
Groaned at 72 Times in 63 Posts
Thanked 13,810 Times in 6,159 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Senate rejects ban on foreign funding for Swiss mosques

Quote:
View Post
Not to mention, it would quickly be struck down as it violates the constitution, unless you expand the scope to ban all foreign religious funding.
An initiative is a change of the constitution. It can, by the virtue of its being, not be against the constitution.
Expect for the reason given in Art. 139 Abs. 3 https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...ndex.html#a139 (unless it tries to change that, I think the SVP is up to something in this regard)
Quote:
If the initiative fails to comply with the requirements of consistency of form, and of subject matter, or if it infringes mandatory provisions of international law, the Federal Assembly shall declare it to be invalid in whole or in part.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #44  
Old 11.07.2018, 17:00
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,029
Groaned at 249 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 2,159 Times in 997 Posts
J2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Senate rejects ban on foreign funding for Swiss mosques

Quote:
View Post
Same as with terror financing, organized crime, money laundering, illegal gambling. The law against it there, it is nevertheless done, it is still forbidden, and one an then some establishments are raided, people drawn to court, and ... nothing happens.
Yes, all of those things are exactly the same. All mosques are central hubs for the terrorist vaults, the mafia's meeting rooms, and all the illegal poker in Switzerland.

Funnily enough, that would make them models of cohabitation!
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 11.07.2018, 17:01
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,029
Groaned at 249 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 2,159 Times in 997 Posts
J2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Senate rejects ban on foreign funding for Swiss mosques

Quote:
View Post
An initiative is a change of the constitution. It can, by the virtue of its being, not be against the constitution.
Yes, but you cant change the constitution to single out one religion detrimentally, any such change would have to apply to all religions.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 11.07.2018, 17:07
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 9,877
Groaned at 200 Times in 171 Posts
Thanked 19,304 Times in 8,228 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Senate rejects ban on foreign funding for Swiss mosques

Quote:
View Post
Not to mention, it would quickly be struck down as it violates the constitution, unless you expand the scope to ban all foreign religious funding.
A referendum vote creates an item of the constitution.

And yes, such an item could equally discriminate against Scientology, Mormonism, Jehovas Witnesses and other religious groups being funded from abroad.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 11.07.2018, 17:09
Dougal's Breakfast's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 17,428
Groaned at 1,105 Times in 858 Posts
Thanked 46,955 Times in 14,531 Posts
Dougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Senate rejects ban on foreign funding for Swiss mosques

Quote:
View Post
Yes, all of those things are exactly the same.
That isn't what SITUS is saying.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Dougal's Breakfast for this useful post:
  #48  
Old 11.07.2018, 17:17
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,029
Groaned at 249 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 2,159 Times in 997 Posts
J2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Senate rejects ban on foreign funding for Swiss mosques

Quote:
View Post
A referendum vote creates an item of the constitution.
*sigh

...which would only pass if the amendment satisfies the basic right of the individual as detailed in title 2 of the Constitution.

And singling out a single religion would not pass that basic requirement.

So the only way the amendment makes it into the constitution is you you apply it to all religions.

Now, you try getting that one through.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 11.07.2018, 17:41
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 6,403
Groaned at 215 Times in 185 Posts
Thanked 8,030 Times in 4,189 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Senate rejects ban on foreign funding for Swiss mosques

Quote:
View Post
Not to mention, it would quickly be struck down as it violates the constitution, unless you expand the scope to ban all foreign religious funding.
Wrong.

Switzerland has no Verfassungsgericht as such, no court to annul a law that contradicts the constitution, or one part of the constitution that contradicts a higher ranking part.

While, if memory serves, the federal court has issued verdicts on the topic, it doesn't have the power to void such a law or parts of the constitution. So unless the federal parliament decides to act, or a Volksinitiative that removes the cotradition has been raised and accepted by the voters, its verdict is meaningless.
Quote:
View Post
Yes, but you cant change the constitution to single out one religion detrimentally, any such change would have to apply to all religions.
If criminal actions take place it doesn't matter in what surroundings they happen, be that Christian (pedophile priests anybody?) or Muslim, they're still criminal and will (should) be prosecuted.

Obviously an individual religion can be targeted, I remind you of the minaret ban. It just depends on how it's done.

Last edited by Urs Max; 11.07.2018 at 17:54.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #50  
Old 11.07.2018, 17:51
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 9,240
Groaned at 72 Times in 63 Posts
Thanked 13,810 Times in 6,159 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Senate rejects ban on foreign funding for Swiss mosques

Quote:
View Post
...which would only pass if the amendment satisfies the basic right of the individual as detailed in title 2 of the Constitution.

And singling out a single religion would not pass that basic requirement.

So the only way the amendment makes it into the constitution is you you apply it to all religions.
Nowhere in the Swiss Constitution does it say that an initiative must adhere to the rest of the constitution except for the stuff mentioned in Art. 139 Abs. 3 . (Linked and quoted above, so no need to do it again)

I could even propose the following change: Art. 4a, the national languages are all languages except those mentioned in Art. 4

Btw. it would be more a violation of Art. 8 Abs 2 but as we have corporate church tax which benefits some faiths only I do not see any discrimination beyond what already exists in this regards.

The Swiss voters are the highest institution and the constitutional giving body. They can change the constitution as they like. Nothing you can do against or were there a court where you could get a ruling. More crazily even a federal law can be "against" the constitution! Why? Because the Swiss voter have the final veto right against any new law or law change (referendum). If they do not wish a referendum or the referendum passes the new law becomes constitutional.

I may also point you to Art. 72 Abs. 3 of the current constitution or Art. 50 to 52 of the old constitution.
__________________
PLAYER 1 ENTER YOUR NAME:_
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #51  
Old 11.07.2018, 19:28
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: -
Posts: 258
Groaned at 142 Times in 100 Posts
Thanked 2,085 Times in 996 Posts
kriss kross has earned some respectkriss kross has earned some respect
Re: Senate rejects ban on foreign funding for Swiss mosques

Quote:
View Post
All religion is voluntary.
"voluntary"
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 11.07.2018, 19:52
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 22,253
Groaned at 537 Times in 411 Posts
Thanked 25,008 Times in 11,442 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Senate rejects ban on foreign funding for Swiss mosques

it is of course in two forward thinking Cantons NE and GE.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 15.09.2018, 19:49
ajw's Avatar
ajw ajw is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: GODS OWN COUNTRY BASEL LAND
Posts: 58
Groaned at 17 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 26 Times in 15 Posts
ajw is considered unworthyajw is considered unworthyajw is considered unworthyajw is considered unworthy
Re: Senate rejects ban on foreign funding for Swiss mosques

Quote:
View Post
There is no such thing as "a Christian country".

spot the commie
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 15.09.2018, 20:20
Dougal's Breakfast's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 17,428
Groaned at 1,105 Times in 858 Posts
Thanked 46,955 Times in 14,531 Posts
Dougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Senate rejects ban on foreign funding for Swiss mosques

Quote:
View Post
spot the commie
Practising Christian, actually.

If you can explain to me how a country can be born again in Christ, I'm all ears.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 16.09.2018, 10:07
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 10,466
Groaned at 160 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 14,729 Times in 5,974 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Senate rejects ban on foreign funding for Swiss mosques

Quote:
View Post
Practising Christian, actually.

If you can explain to me how a country can be born again in Christ, I'm all ears.
Erm... Christian, as an adjective, can mean relating to Christians or Christianity. A Christian country would therefore by a country with predominantly Christian characteristics, or where most people living there are Christians.

Still can't think of an actual Christian country, mind - I don't think there's been one since being a member of the state church became voluntary.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Swiss Tax on Selling foreign real estate owned by a foreign company?? Jo Flower Finance/banking/taxation 0 06.08.2015 12:05
CIA snoops on Senate Castro International affairs/politics 0 12.03.2014 11:49
Minaret ban mastermind rejects Nazi tag The Local Swiss news via The Local 33 05.07.2012 08:56
Union calls for Swiss ban on euro salaries The Local Swiss news via The Local 0 19.09.2011 13:43
Witholding tax on Foreign shares for a swiss resident Ashish Finance/banking/taxation 17 23.09.2010 18:08


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 00:47.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0