We can walk around in circles discussing this. But the fact is that censorship exists, whether for good or bad reasons. And that you remark about the SVP has nothing to do with those who are really at the forefront of asking for and supporting it.

From the explanatory document:
So yes, it explicitly does.

Yup. My remark was about the SVPs ability to turn any topic into something they can blame on criminal Muslim immigrants. Not sure how that will work with gambling as that isn't a Muslim thing... but I am sure they'll find a way.

At least partially that's partially what actually happens.

The casino's gross earnings (defined as the total of all players bets minus players wins paid out) are heavily taxed. For class A casinos ("Grand Casinos") the tax rate is 50% on average; that tax (200mln annually) funds the AHV. For class B casinos the tax rate is 43% on gross earnings of 280mln, about 2/5 of the tax (47mln) or 17% of gross revenue funds the Lotteriefonds.

You may have heard of Lotto and Totto; their payout rate is 50%, the other half funds the Lotteriefonds, AFAIK it's its main money source. Each Kanton has its own sub-Lotteriefonds which is funded by respective Kanton's share of the federal Lotteriefonds. The kantonal Lotteriefonds is used to sponsor a full host of things, in general cultural events and institutions.

Yes, I was assuming everybody knew that. Not the exact figures but the principle.

The question is, does internet gambling meaningfully lessen that revenue, and does the new law fix that gap?

But so far nobody besides you has made that connection yet.

You are comparing a real discussion with a totally hypothetical one.

I imagine internet gambling from foreign sites counts for sweet FA when it comes to revenue for Swiss AHV and whatever else the Swiss gambling is contributing to.

There are only 2 reasons to ban gambling *in this fashion*¨
- puritanism (USA)
- tax/money leaving the country (Europe)
Or a mix of both

Any dressing up about "protecting addicts" is utter horseshit given other addictions are far more prevalent. Online gambling outfits don't want problem (or professional gamblers): they have data warehouses to predict spend and patterns per customers. It's bad PR quite simply.

In this case, it seems more like "put a Swiss flag on it = Swiss gambling is higher quality" or some such bollocks.

The censorship bit is interesting though. What next?
ISPs to filter Amazon because people aren't spending money in the country?

Disclaimer: I've worked for a Swedish online gambling outfit with operations/licences all over Europe

Yeah, sure.

But technically that's not the same as saying Swiss gambling outfits lose revenue to foreign gambling outfits. Might be a totally different demographic and all that. Think language barriers and /or different games or even general distrust of foreign stuff, especially by older people. Or just that the sort of person who buys a lotto ticket at the kiosk while waiting for the train is not at all the type who would gamble online. So no real threat. Might be the market overall is growing so there are pickings for everybody. Lots of scenarios are possible and we haven't really seen any data.

Of course it does though the extent is anybody's guess, and no.

Interesting that the overall vote in favour was so huge, though. If foreign online gambling was so big, you'd have thought more people would want less regulation rather than a complete cut of one sector.

In my view, both sides were fielding a lot of BS arguments. I did t see much in the way of hard facts being produced by either side, or serious attempts at a debate.

I think many people didn't have a clue what was really at stake, or why it matters. Hence the low turnout.

I think the general Swiss reflex is, in case of doubt, follow the government's recommendation.

So it kind of figures, in that case, that there's not a huge rabid appetite for online foreign-based gambling then otherwise there would have been a more hotly charged debate. Seems to have just been collectively filed under "Meh, whatevs...".

As usual it's a combination of all the above. Many of the people who use it did probably not bother voting...Many of the people who voted don't care and just followed what the government suggested (yes, that happens very often) or would like to ban all online gambling (so they just voted for the ban).


In my opinion the "against" campaign was poorly done. Only in the last couple of weeks did they say they wanted a new law, a better one, if this one Fails.


It's an interesting question if other bans will follow. We shall find out!

It is hard to block VPN, one can just get a dedicated IP and it will be almost impossible to trace being a VPN. How do I know?
However, it is more tricky to send funds to offshore online casino's with a Swiss issued bank account, credit card and billing address. Can also be dealt with but might not be worth the hassle.

There is absolutely no need to block internet access to foreign casinos (etc) or attempt to stymie VPN access.

All they have to do is to block Swiss Credit/Debit/Banking transactions with said foreign companies. Said gambling business will cut off Swiss residents faster than you can say croupier.

Of course gambling addicts can use Revolut or something like that, but most Swiss punters will use Swiss sites and Swiss taxes will be collected accordingly.

Nothing but EF and Habbo Hotel for you from now on.

Foreign bank accounts or even credit cards are not that difficult to get.

Of course. But most people, still having access to Swiss sites, will have little incentive to set one up for just this purpose. Also using such sites could have tax or other implications for a big win. Would this involve profiting from an illegal activity? Perhaps.

Swiss sites can be obliged to comply with Swiss law, foreign companies not so much.

I don’t gamble for a simple reason. On Average the house always wins. Always. It’s a law of the universe, like gravity or entropy.

I meant it was "un-Swiss" in that Switzerland has a very relaxed view when it comes to other vices (smoking, drinking, prostitution, illegal downloading etc.). Seems an odd thing to focus on gambling addiction when illnesses from smoking and drinking are likely just as prevalent. I always viewed Switzerland as very libertarian when it comes down to such matters which is why I'm surprised that this vote gained so much support.