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  #41  
Old 12.06.2018, 09:04
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

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I meant it was "un-Swiss" in that Switzerland has a very relaxed view when it comes to other vices (smoking, drinking, prostitution, illegal downloading etc.). Seems an odd thing to focus on gambling addiction when illnesses from smoking and drinking are likely just as prevalent. I always viewed Switzerland as very libertarian when it comes down to such matters which is why I'm surprised that this vote gained so much support.
Maybe they've got nothing against the gambling as such, more against the profits going over the border?

As far as I can see, gambling is still legal and its regulation hasn't changed.
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Old 12.06.2018, 09:16
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

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I meant it was "un-Swiss" in that Switzerland has a very relaxed view when it comes to other vices (smoking, drinking, prostitution, illegal downloading etc.). Seems an odd thing to focus on gambling addiction when illnesses from smoking and drinking are likely just as prevalent. I always viewed Switzerland as very libertarian when it comes down to such matters which is why I'm surprised that this vote gained so much support.
I think it is some very old and deep routed culture towards money. A very protestant ascetism - its important to have money, but you are not supposed to show it off. And you are certainly not supposed to have fun with it.
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  #43  
Old 12.06.2018, 09:18
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

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Maybe they've got nothing against the gambling as such, more against the profits going over the border?

As far as I can see, gambling is still legal and its regulation hasn't changed.
As I wrote before was gambling outlawed completely for a very long time... and then only allowed within strictly controlled environments. He is right: if CH had the same attitude to drugs and cigarettes it would be a different country, so its quite interesting to see how selective they are on what is accepted and what not.
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  #44  
Old 12.06.2018, 10:38
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

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I always viewed Switzerland as very libertarian when it comes down to such matters which is why I'm surprised that this vote gained so much support.
You do not know much about the Swiss law making process. Unlike in other countries where one major party more or less defines the law Switzerland aims to incorporate the needs of many stake holders. Consociationalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consociationalism and the mandatory Consultation Process https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_consultation https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...737/index.html will lead to laws that please the many but also may upset a lot. In this respect the new law is more liberal but at the same time also more restrictive than the old law.

The referendum against the new law was driven by two groups with different aims. One group said the new law was too liberal whereas the other said it was too restrictive. On the other hand those supporting the new law said it was a law the addresses all needs and is, for time being, the best we can get.

Swiss voters normally agree on this middle ground if it is reasonable. But sometimes it also get dismissed as the compromises if the compromise presented is not even a half baked one.
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  #45  
Old 12.06.2018, 22:57
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

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As I wrote before was gambling outlawed completely for a very long time... and then only allowed within strictly controlled environments. He is right: if CH had the same attitude to drugs and cigarettes it would be a different country, so its quite interesting to see how selective they are on what is accepted and what not.
The only reason the Swuss are OK with prostitution is that it raises tax revenue. Same with cigarettes. If somebody proposed the most liberal gambling law ever, but found a way to make it taxable, you can bet it would be accepted.
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  #46  
Old 12.06.2018, 23:55
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

I don't understand this. Isn't Switzerland a WTO signatory? And isn't this the very type of "protectionist" law that the US was beaten up for earlier?

https://www.ictsd.org/bridges-news/b...ws-are-illegal

If I'm not mistaken, Antigua brought suit against the US under WTO rules and won for the very same thing.

How is it then, that Switzerland will not face similar EU/WTO actions for this law, which is the very essence of protectionism? Won't CH be facing down international lawsuits shortly? I can't imagine that EU partners are very happy that CH has decided that its citizens can gamble locally, but are prevented from cross-border gambling, even if it is online only.
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  #47  
Old 13.06.2018, 07:30
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

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The only reason the Swuss are OK with prostitution is that it raises tax revenue. Same with cigarettes. If somebody proposed the most liberal gambling law ever, but found a way to make it taxable, you can bet it would be accepted.
Quite easy, simply slap a tax on any winnings and it's deducted when you collect them - same as a sales tax. Or have a levy on casinos, etc, as they do in the UK now.

http://www.bettingsites.co/articles/...-winnings.html

It's really not that difficult so that excuse doesn't fly.
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  #48  
Old 13.06.2018, 07:49
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

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You do not know much about the Swiss law making process.
Yes Sherlock, this can clearly be deduced from what I wrote
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  #49  
Old 13.06.2018, 08:34
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

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You do not know much about the Swiss law making process. Unlike in other countries where one major party more or less defines the law Switzerland aims to incorporate the needs of many stake holders. Consociationalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consociationalism and the mandatory Consultation Process https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_consultation https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...737/index.html will lead to laws that please the many but also may upset a lot. In this respect the new law is more liberal but at the same time also more restrictive than the old law.
You don't know much about the law making processes in other countries either.

Using the U.K.:

Public consultations are very common (and in other countries too). It's normal in a democracy and not unique to Switzerland

Laws have to be passed by both houses. The Lords are made up of people from all parties and the commons to a lesser extent and not one party as you believe incorrectly.

I think you'll also find laws passed that both upset and please people. This is normal. Not sure why you think this is unique to Switzerland.
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  #50  
Old 13.06.2018, 09:33
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

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I don't understand this. Isn't Switzerland a WTO signatory? And isn't this the very type of "protectionist" law that the US was beaten up for earlier?
- only casinos can offer gambling (certain games)
- a casino needs a Swiss license in order to operate or offer its services in Switzerland
- all unlicensed operators get barred

Which part is discriminatory?

You'd proabably need to check in detail why the US ban was ruled discriminatory to determine whether it applies here as well.
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  #51  
Old 13.06.2018, 10:11
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

It is all about the money.

It is a good argument:

Gambling gone, but the one we keep, we profit and put it into sports and the AHV.

No one can really argue with that... unfortunately it doesn't make sense and people did not understand the big issue of Internet freedom
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  #52  
Old 13.06.2018, 15:14
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

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The only reason the Swuss are OK with prostitution is that it raises tax revenue.
Well then, Sherlock, explain why prostitution has been legal for ages but it hasn't been taxed until relatively recently (less than 10 years, say).
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Old 13.06.2018, 17:37
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

I still don't understand why blocking is necessary.
Dumb me would think:

Make it illegal and then follow the legal way to go after people, either on the producer or the consumer sides.
But like this, they should, logically, now also add other websites to the block list. Not going to suggest anything to not give people any ideas.
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  #54  
Old 13.06.2018, 17:43
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

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Well then, Sherlock, explain why prostitution has been legal for ages but it hasn't been taxed until relatively recently (less than 10 years, say).

Well, the politicians, as probable clients, don't want to shoot themselves in the... ahem.
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  #55  
Old 21.06.2018, 16:44
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

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Well then, Sherlock, explain why prostitution has been legal for ages but it hasn't been taxed until relatively recently (less than 10 years, say).
Because paying tax means the state considers it a worthwhile profession. Until fairly recently, such a progressive viewpoint was not had by many in Switzerland.

However, banning it outright is a silly way to deal with prostitution. The swiss, being as pragmatic as ever, said "fine, do it, but we dont encourage it and the state shall not profit from it".

Thats what has changed; the state is now willing to profit from it. And its the same with this gambling referendum. The state is now willing to profit from it, because the swiss people are of the opinion that it is no longer such a terrible thing.

Ironically, it is being limited because the swiss want it to be more widespread.
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  #56  
Old 27.06.2019, 07:59
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

Reminder to get your overseas gambling accounts closed and paid out by the weekend. As of Monday 1st July you won’t be able to access them unless you have a VPN, and even then many websites won’t allow you access themselves if you have a Swiss address registered.
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  #57  
Old 27.06.2019, 22:06
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

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A road trip took us through Shreveport a couple of years ago. The casinos are on boats and thus technically outside of the legislation of the state, but all the hotels and things are on firm land so it's all a bit fake.

The Louisiana law was a fun one. The first licenses were issued only for paddle boats, but with changes in the law and when there is so much money involved people get creative. L’Auberge in Lake Charles, which no one would mistake for a boat, is technically legal because they just dug out the area on which the gambling floor would sit and floated it over water.

If I'm not mistaken all those casinos are regulated by the coast guard, have to maintain a crew and a working paddle wheel somewhere.
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  #58  
Old 27.06.2019, 22:25
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

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Reminder to get your overseas gambling accounts closed and paid out by the weekend. As of Monday 1st July you won’t be able to access them unless you have a VPN, and even then many websites won’t allow you access themselves if you have a Swiss address registered.

This is one of those cases where reality came as a bit of surprise to politicians and lobbyists.

There was a discussion on the Swiss Network Operators mailing list in the past days, and somebody posted a little FAQ/Q&A:

http://lists.swinog.ch/public/swinog...ne/007176.html
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Old 28.06.2019, 17:41
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

I can see the discussion was held some time ago...


Still I would like to say, I clearly voted against this.


It is stupid, market-shattering and opens the door for further internet-censorship.


I read a bit through this thread and have to say: people here seem to think too much about what voters might think about... like AHV and stuff. Fact is, the campaign that claimed that it was a good thing was very strong and most people fell for it. It unfortunately is the case, that most people that vote don't put that much effort/thinking into it.


(and to be honest, with topics that don't concern me that much, I might not be that different....)
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