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Old 11.06.2018, 09:11
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Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

"Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law which will block foreign betting sites"

"The government says it is designed to tackle gambling addiction."

Really??? Swiss gambling sites are less additive than foreign gambling sites??

Why didn`t they just ban ALL gambling sites???
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Old 11.06.2018, 09:20
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

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Really??? Swiss gambling sites are less additive than foreign gambling sites??

Why didn`t they just ban ALL gambling sites???
While I personally abhor all gambling and therefore (perhaps ironically) agree with your last point, I think we must accept that it's an unrealistic expectation.

As for the rest, I can easily imagine that they'd be better able to enforce fair play rules on domestic sites, and maybe they will put addiction warnings on each page, a bit like those on cigarettes packets.

Whatever, I can't see anything bad about it... unless you are a hard core gambler using non-Swiss sites, of course.
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Old 11.06.2018, 09:20
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

Probably relates to this major legal case in U.S.

https://www.usitc.gov/publications/3...ng_dispute.pdf
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Old 11.06.2018, 09:40
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

Here's the linky...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44430267
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Old 11.06.2018, 09:46
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

Really surprised at this, such an "un-Swiss" thing to vote for. Best get closing my online accounts...
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Old 11.06.2018, 09:49
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

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Whatever, I can't see anything bad about it... .
You realise this gives the government the legal power to block access to bits of the internet and opens the door to censorship?
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Old 11.06.2018, 10:02
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

I'm surprised we only start debating this after the vote.

It's not as if nobody has noticed the posters everywhere.

Lock the stable after the horse has bolted and all that.
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Old 11.06.2018, 10:05
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

Wouldn't it be fairly straightforward to do a work around with a masked IP?

Determined addicts of anything normally find a way of getting a fix whatever blockades you put up.
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Old 11.06.2018, 10:09
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

"Masked IP" is called a private VPN... Yes, you can basically access anything anywhere.

That is if they don`t decide one day to block VPN access...
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Old 11.06.2018, 10:13
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

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"Masked IP" is called a private VPN... Yes, you can basically access anything anywhere.

That is if they don`t decide one day to block VPN access...
But they can't just "decide one day to block VPN access" can they? Blocking the external gambling sites only came about because over 70% of voters wanted it. I can't see a global blocking initiative having a similar result.
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Old 11.06.2018, 10:16
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

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You realise this gives the government the legal power to block access to bits of the internet and opens the door to censorship?
No, it doesn't. The vote doesn't confer any powers or mechanism for enforcement.
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Old 11.06.2018, 10:27
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

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But they can't just "decide one day to block VPN access" can they? Blocking the external gambling sites only came about because over 70% of voters wanted it. I can't see a global blocking initiative having a similar result.
Just being sarcastic but I guess in theory they could have a referendum....
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Old 11.06.2018, 10:30
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

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Really surprised at this, such an "un-Swiss" thing to vote for. Best get closing my online accounts...
Really? I find it the most Swiss thing to do.


The Swiss had a general ban on gambling since forever. That was a time before the internet, so to gamble one had to visit a real life casino. The ones just across the border from Konstanz to Bregenz made many millions on Swiss customers a year. So much so that at some point the cantons decided theyd rather keep the money in the country... and therefore allow gambling while still believing its a bad thing.

Then we had a decade or so of public disputes about poker tournaments. The government cracked down on any sort of fun tournament they could find. There were literally raids by SWAT teams on some village club houses... so a lot of people apparently decided to rather play poker online.

And the Swiss are once again sure that only Swiss casinos can be good casinos... and its all for the protection of the people and in no way to keep the money in the country.
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Old 11.06.2018, 10:34
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

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Just being sarcastic but I guess in theory they could have a referendum....
In theory could the parliament ban VPNs and then somebody brings up a referendum to unblock it? I could already imagine the posters the SVP could dream up. Only criminals need those VPNs anyways... especially foreign child molester and rapists...
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Old 11.06.2018, 10:43
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

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Really? I find it the most Swiss thing to do.


The Swiss had a general ban on gambling since forever. That was a time before the internet, so to gamble one had to visit a real life casino. The ones just across the border from Konstanz to Bregenz made many millions on Swiss customers a year. So much so that at some point the cantons decided theyd rather keep the money in the country... and therefore allow gambling while still believing its a bad thing.

Then we had a decade or so of public disputes about poker tournaments. The government cracked down on any sort of fun tournament they could find. There were literally raids by SWAT teams on some village club houses... so a lot of people apparently decided to rather play poker online.

And the Swiss are once again sure that only Swiss casinos can be good casinos... and its all for the protection of the people and in no way to keep the money in the country.


Fun question: Since the ISPs wont block internet traffic - they after all don't even block obviously illegal downloading sites - how would anyone ever know if you'd be playing pokerstars instead of RetosSwissOnlinePoker?
The posters of the yes side have been pushing the argument that this law captures tax revenue that can be used for things like children's sports, zoos and other nice stuff. Whether that's how it really works is a matter of debate of course. But winning the vote creates a sort of obligation to actually spend money on those things so this doesn't turn into the equivalent of Boris' bus fiasco.

I don't think anybody ever said, we will stop or capture all gambling activity. Alcohol tax and airport customs checks dont stop people smuggling alcohol either. But it stops the more law abiding people from trying, and therefore the net effect on tax revenue is positive. There are situations where from the government's point of view that is good enough.
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Old 11.06.2018, 10:48
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

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In theory could the parliament ban VPNs and then somebody brings up a referendum to unblock it? I could already imagine the posters the SVP could dream up. Only criminals need those VPNs anyways... especially foreign child molester and rapists...
I always imagined that blocking VPNs was more something the left liked to fantasise about. When Heiko Maas was in charge of the German justice ministry the idea was on the table when they realised people were getting around all those supposed right wing videos he was blocking on Facebook.
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Old 11.06.2018, 10:48
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

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Really? I find it the most Swiss thing to do.


The Swiss had a general ban on gambling since forever. That was a time before the internet, so to gamble one had to visit a real life casino. The ones just across the border from Konstanz to Bregenz made many millions on Swiss customers a year. So much so that at some point the cantons decided theyd rather keep the money in the country... and therefore allow gambling while still believing its a bad thing.

Then we had a decade or so of public disputes about poker tournaments. The government cracked down on any sort of fun tournament they could find. There were literally raids by SWAT teams on some village club houses... so a lot of people apparently decided to rather play poker online.

And the Swiss are once again sure that only Swiss casinos can be good casinos... and its all for the protection of the people and in no way to keep the money in the country.
Yeah, it can get crazy. Texas doesn't allow casinos, except on Native American lands, so there's a really huge casino complex right on the Oklahoma/Texas border. We couldn't believe how big it was when we drove by it.

https://www.winstarworldcasino.com/

https://gamboool.com/what-is-the-lar...no-in-oklahoma

And this in a state that didn't allow gambling until the 2000s.
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Old 11.06.2018, 10:56
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

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Yeah, it can get crazy. Texas doesn't allow casinos, except on Native American lands, so there's a really huge casino complex right on the Oklahoma/Texas border. We couldn't believe how big it was when we drove by it.

https://www.winstarworldcasino.com/

https://gamboool.com/what-is-the-lar...no-in-oklahoma

And this in a state that didn't allow gambling until the 2000s.
A road trip took us through Shreveport a couple of years ago. The casinos are on boats and thus technically outside of the legislation of the state, but all the hotels and things are on firm land so it's all a bit fake.

We went onto a casino boat just out of intetest and what we saw was rather sad. The folks were obviously poor and probably betting their last dollars. They didn't seem to be having much fun either. All gloomily staring into the machines. The roulette and poker tables seemed marginally more elated, but only marginally. Even the guy who won didn't seem particularly happy about it. The staff were all surly and nobody would smile. I couldn't work out why people would want to come to a place like that.
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Old 11.06.2018, 11:02
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

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I always imagined that blocking VPNs was more something the left liked to fantasise about. When Heiko Maas was in charge of the German justice ministry the idea was on the table when they realised people were getting around all those supposed right wing videos he was blocking on Facebook.
The country with the strongest internet content filters in Europe is the UK, hardly left winged hippies...


What Heiko Maas was targeting was something different. In the last couple of years did we see some sort of hate speech wave on the German internet. Yes, we can discuss forever how far freedom of speech should or does go... but in the current laws is it illegal to insult a person and even more so to threaten with violence. It does not matter if you do it online or in real life.
Hate campaigns at politicians and other public figures - typically the ones who supported refugees - have in fact lead to some crazy people committing violent crimes. So I think giving the police the tools to do the same jobs online which they do offline is a no-brainer. The discussion should not be if the police should enforce a law. The discussion should be on that law.
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Old 11.06.2018, 11:03
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Re: Swiss voters have overwhelmingly backed a new gambling law....

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I couldn't work out why people would want to come to a place like that.
They don't want to. They're suffering from an addiction.
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