Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04.08.2018, 19:42
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 96
Groaned at 29 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 112 Times in 71 Posts
versus is considered unworthyversus is considered unworthyversus is considered unworthy
Plane crash in Graubünden

http://www.20min.ch/schweiz/ostschwe...as-ab-27027811

Last edited by versus; 04.08.2018 at 20:38.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users groan at versus for this post:
  #2  
Old 04.08.2018, 20:23
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 96
Groaned at 29 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 112 Times in 71 Posts
versus is considered unworthyversus is considered unworthyversus is considered unworthy
Re: Plane crash in Canton Nidwalden

Quote:
A link to a story in a language other than English with no comment or summary.

That's no better than spam.
I have added a link to an article in English. Here it is again for your comfort: https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/several...orest/44300928
Hope this helps.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank versus for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 04.08.2018, 22:27
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 12,761
Groaned at 99 Times in 88 Posts
Thanked 19,519 Times in 8,661 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Plane crash in Graubünden

Bad and sad news

The which crashed plane is a Ju-52
https://www.ju-air.ch/en/top-news/

https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/panoram...story/25721979
https://www.lematin.ch/suisse/avion-...story/26503286

"In a separate crash in canton Graubünden on Saturday afternoon, an aircraft was reported to have gone down at Piz Segnas, at an altitude of over 2,000 metres. Several helicopters were involved in a recovery operation, and it remained unclear in the early evening how many, if any, victims were involved."

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/plane/44300776
__________________
"Okay, I just hope we don't wake up on Mars or something surrounded by millions of little squashy guys."
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 04.08.2018, 22:36
Rob's Avatar
Rob Rob is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Baden AG
Posts: 464
Groaned at 8 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,337 Times in 520 Posts
Rob has a reputation beyond reputeRob has a reputation beyond reputeRob has a reputation beyond reputeRob has a reputation beyond reputeRob has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Plane crash in Graubünden

It doesn’t look good I’m afraid. A JU-52 has 17 seats.

Looking at the photo from a rescue chopper i can’t see how anyone got out of that.

http://avherald.com/h?article=4bbf2069&opt=0
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Rob for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 04.08.2018, 22:54
roegner's Avatar
Moderately Dutch
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,621
Groaned at 354 Times in 295 Posts
Thanked 12,934 Times in 6,133 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Plane crash in Graubünden

Sad to see another Ju crash (in Germany they call them Tante Ju (aunt Ju)). Lovely planes. happy to have been on one.

I do hope people managed to get safely out!
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users groan at roegner for this post:
  #6  
Old 04.08.2018, 23:35
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 30,062
Groaned at 2,143 Times in 1,599 Posts
Thanked 36,039 Times in 17,087 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Plane crash in Graubünden

Quote:
View Post
The which crashed plane is a Ju-52
So, just another junker.

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users groan at st2lemans for this post:
  #7  
Old 05.08.2018, 00:21
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 11,805
Groaned at 193 Times in 160 Posts
Thanked 13,304 Times in 6,938 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Plane crash in Graubünden

Quote:
View Post
Sad to see another Ju crash (in Germany they call them Tante Ju (aunt Ju)). Lovely planes. happy to have been on one.

I do hope people managed to get safely out!
Yep, same here, Tante Ju.
Aren't these the very slow ones, where you wonder how they keep up there?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05.08.2018, 09:32
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Near Baden
Posts: 187
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 163 Times in 83 Posts
Crofty has earned the respect of manyCrofty has earned the respect of manyCrofty has earned the respect of many
Re: Plane crash in Graubünden/Nidwalden

There are reports of 20 people in the GR crash. We watched lots of helicopter and fire service activity up and down the Sernftal valley GL on the North side of Piz Segnas yesterday evening.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Crofty for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 05.08.2018, 10:57
Rob's Avatar
Rob Rob is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Baden AG
Posts: 464
Groaned at 8 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,337 Times in 520 Posts
Rob has a reputation beyond reputeRob has a reputation beyond reputeRob has a reputation beyond reputeRob has a reputation beyond reputeRob has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Plane crash in Graubünden/Nidwalden

Quote:
View Post
There are reports of 20 people in the GR crash. We watched lots of helicopter and fire service activity up and down the Sernftal valley GL on the North side of Piz Segnas yesterday evening.
Yes, these birds are usually fully booked. That’s 17 pax and 3 crew.

Possibly they were caught in a downdraft, they can be pretty bad in this kind of weather. I suppose we’ll have to wait for the STSB investigation.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Rob for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 05.08.2018, 11:05
roegner's Avatar
Moderately Dutch
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,621
Groaned at 354 Times in 295 Posts
Thanked 12,934 Times in 6,133 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Plane crash in Graubünden

Quote:
View Post
Sad to see another Ju crash (in Germany they call them Tante Ju (aunt Ju)). Lovely planes. happy to have been on one.

I do hope people managed to get safely out!
Any particular reason versus you found it necessary to groan at this? Or are you just groaning at anything some people write??
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank roegner for this useful post:
The following 4 users groan at roegner for this post:
  #11  
Old 05.08.2018, 11:10
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Plane crash in Graubünden

Quote:
View Post
Any particular reason versus you found it necessary to groan at this? Or are you just groaning at anything some people write??
Reason?! You imply there is some logic at play here, when there is not.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
The following 2 users groan at for this post:
  #12  
Old 05.08.2018, 11:13
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 96
Groaned at 29 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 112 Times in 71 Posts
versus is considered unworthyversus is considered unworthyversus is considered unworthy
Re: Plane crash in Graubünden

Quote:
View Post
Any particular reason versus you found it necessary to groan at this? Or are you just groaning at anything some people write??
Headlines and articles clearly state there was loss of life.

Quote:
View Post
Sad to see another Ju crash (in Germany they call them Tante Ju (aunt Ju)). Lovely planes. happy to have been on one.

I do hope people managed to get safely out!
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank versus for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 05.08.2018, 11:18
roegner's Avatar
Moderately Dutch
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,621
Groaned at 354 Times in 295 Posts
Thanked 12,934 Times in 6,133 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Plane crash in Graubünden

Quote:
View Post
Reason?! You imply there is some logic at play here, when there is not.
Two days of peace and quiet now :-)

She won´t be back until August 7
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank roegner for this useful post:
The following 3 users groan at roegner for this post:
  #14  
Old 05.08.2018, 11:40
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Plane crash in Graubünden

Quote:
View Post
Two days of peace and quiet now :-)

She won´t be back until August 7
Great! Only one irritation now: the heat

Can someone please ask the mods to ban the heat?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 05.08.2018, 11:49
Belgianmum's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Neuchâtel
Posts: 12,298
Groaned at 200 Times in 177 Posts
Thanked 19,886 Times in 8,224 Posts
Belgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Plane crash in Graubünden

Quote:
View Post
Headlines and articles clearly state there was loss of life.

People getting out safely and loss of life are not mutually exclusive you know ? ( not the same people obviously)
It doesn’t seem likely in this case but it was still a possibility when roegner made her comment.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Belgianmum for this useful post:
The following 2 users groan at Belgianmum for this post:
  #16  
Old 05.08.2018, 11:54
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,584
Groaned at 152 Times in 98 Posts
Thanked 7,569 Times in 2,588 Posts
Kittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Plane crash in Graubünden

Very sad news indeed the loss of life and of a piece of history that was lovingly maintained for so many years. Considering that they only let very experienced pilots fly those oldtimers, something unusual must have occurred. I actually was lucky enough to be a passenger on this plane many years ago and remember how excited and thrilled everyone on board was - including the pilots. Such a dreadful end to what was probably a "once in a lifetime" experience for many on board.
RIP, blue skies and tailwinds forever.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Kittster for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 05.08.2018, 16:03
Deep Purple's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: England
Posts: 5,266
Groaned at 16 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 5,255 Times in 2,557 Posts
Deep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Plane crash in Graubünden

It appears that the JU-52 crashed vertically at speed and hadn't hit any cables etc. All 20 on board killed

http://avherald.com/h?article=4bbf2069
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Deep Purple for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 05.08.2018, 18:10
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 21,715
Groaned at 386 Times in 298 Posts
Thanked 16,655 Times in 9,407 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Plane crash in Graubünden

Made the Beeb news as well.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45076060
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 28.01.2021, 16:33
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 12,761
Groaned at 99 Times in 88 Posts
Thanked 19,519 Times in 8,661 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Plane crash in Graubünden

The STBS has published its final report on the JU-52 HB-HOT crash.

From the press release:

15 recommendations to improve safety following the crash of the Ju 52

The Swiss Transportation Safety Investigation Board (STSB) has published the final report on the crash of the Ju 52 aeroplane near Flims (canton of Grisons, Switzerland) on 4 August 2018. In its report, the STSB concludes that a number of different factors led to the accident. To improve aviation safety, the STSB has issued eight safety recommendations to the supervisory authority and seven points of safety advice to the companies concerned. The investigation does not establish blame or determine liability.

On 4 August 2018, a historic Junkers Ju 52 commercial aircraft known as ‘Iron Annie’, operated by Ju-Air, crashed near Flims in Switzerland. All 20 people on board lost their lives. The STSB investigated the accident in order to identify the cause of the crash. The STSB published the final report on this accident on 28 January 2021. In its report, the STSB concludes that the pilots’ actions led to the crash. Errors on the part of air operator Ju-Air – as well as negligence by the supervisory authority, the Federal Office of Civil Aviation (FOCA) – contributed to the circumstances in which such an accident could occur.

High-risk piloting was a direct cause of the accident

The STSB established that the pilots’ high-risk flying was a direct cause of the accident. When entering the narrow valley south-west of Piz Segnas, the flight crew piloted the aircraft at low altitude, with no possibility of an alternative flight path and at an airspeed that was dangerously low for the circumstances. As to be expected in the mountains in close proximity to the terrain, the aeroplane flew through turbulences in this valley. The high-risk manner of flying through these not unusual turbulences caused the pilots to lose control of the aircraft. The aeroplane was flying too low to allow enough space to rectify the situation, and as a result it almost vertically hit the ground.

Underlying factors contributed to the accident

In its report, the STSB identifies, among other things, the following underlying factors that contributed to the accident:
• The centre of gravity of the aeroplane was beyond the rear limit during the flight in question. This dangerous situation was caused by inadequate flight preparation and errors in the Ju-Air software.
• The pilots of the accident flight, and also a number of other pilots, had become accustomed – when working for Ju-Air – to not complying with rules for safe flight operations and taking high risks even with passengers on board.
• Ju-Air failed to recognise the significant risks in its flight operations. Furthermore, the air operator failed to prevent its pilots from repeatedly violating the rules.
• Various requirements which are intended to ensure a high level of safety for commercial passenger air transport had not been met for some time.
• FOCA’s supervisory activities failed to identify numerous safety problems at Ju-Air or were ineffective.

Further risks identified and safety recommendations made

In addition to these underlying factors, the STSB identified other risks – including that the aircraft involved in the accident was in improper mechanical condition – however, these did not contribute to the accident.

To improve aviation safety, the STSB has issued eight safety recommendations and seven points of safety advice in its report. The safety recommendations are addressed to FOCA as the competent supervisory authority and are intended to facilitate effective operational and technical supervision. With regards to the safety advice, the STSB is addressing the air operator Ju-Air as well as the aircraft maintenance organisations concerned. The purpose of this advice is to improve operational aspects within the organisations and to help identify and mitigate risks in a more safety-conscious manner.

__________________
"Okay, I just hope we don't wake up on Mars or something surrounded by millions of little squashy guys."
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 28.01.2021, 16:57
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,972
Groaned at 240 Times in 203 Posts
Thanked 23,041 Times in 9,784 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Plane crash in Graubünden

I wonder if Ju-Air flights will ever resume.

The report does not reflect well on the organization's staff or maintenance practices.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[bin Laden relatives killed in] Plane Crash SOBEIT International affairs/politics 8 07.08.2015 18:21
Two Swiss dead in German plane crash The Local Swiss news via The Local 0 29.05.2012 14:52
Michael Connell dies in Plane crash hoppy International affairs/politics 1 08.01.2009 13:58
Many dead in Madrid plane crash Castro International affairs/politics 46 24.08.2008 04:29
Plane crash in Basel Stadt mimi1981 Swiss politics/news 14 24.07.2007 01:47


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 18:46.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0