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  #221  
Old 25.11.2018, 14:38
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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In Ticino, 70% YES.

Tom
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  #222  
Old 25.11.2018, 14:50
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

@Rjellsch
Maybe you should also read "The right to leave a country"
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  #223  
Old 25.11.2018, 14:57
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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Which means, worryingly, that nearly 40% were for it.
Only 34% now. Nice Sunday, isn't it!
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  #224  
Old 25.11.2018, 15:11
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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Maybe the self-determination thing was just too big a step to attract a majority? That seems to be the way with some initiatives. They go in for the full monty, it gets rejected because it's just a bit too much and they come back at a later date with a slightly diluted version which appeals to a broader base?
There was a big Swiss fight with the EU after the MEI passed despite the SVP claiming there would be no impact on the bilaterals.

Maybe voters are now a little more cautious about voting for cats in sacks?
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  #225  
Old 26.11.2018, 09:43
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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Maybe voters are now a little more cautious about voting for cats in sacks?
According to the news articles I read so far did the media come to two conclusions:
1. People are tired of just another anti-EU campaign
2. People seemed to find the topic rather abstract, or as one political researcher said "voters wondered if the SVPs claimed problem is in fact real"...



Switzerland was the trailblazer for the wave of right winged populism in Europe if not the world. Looks like the SVP is increasingly struggling without Blocher to get the same sort of results. I hope this is setting the trend once more...
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  #226  
Old 26.11.2018, 09:50
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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According to the news articles I read so far did the media come to two conclusions:
1. People are tired of just another anti-EU campaign
2. People seemed to find the topic rather abstract, or as one political researcher said "voters wondered if the SVPs claimed problem is in fact real"...

Switzerland was the trailblazer for the wave of right winged populism in Europe if not the world. Looks like the SVP is increasingly struggling without Blocher to get the same sort of results. I hope this is setting the trend once more...
In addition there is finally an effective alliance against the SVP focussed around Operation Libero and Schutzfaktor M. The SVP don't have it all their own way any more
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  #227  
Old 26.11.2018, 10:05
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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According to the news articles I read so far did the media come to two conclusions:
1. People are tired of just another anti-EU campaign
2. People seemed to find the topic rather abstract, or as one political researcher said "voters wondered if the SVPs claimed problem is in fact real"...

Switzerland was the trailblazer for the wave of right winged populism in Europe if not the world. Looks like the SVP is increasingly struggling without Blocher to get the same sort of results. I hope this is setting the trend once more...
"People seemed to find the topic rather abstract" good point,I did too find that.

Toni Brunner the ex SVP President resigned from the Nationalrat last week so another well known and influential figure has gone.

The SVP so far has managed to avoid the sort of faction fighting that has often ripped apart right winged populist parties. It was often claimed this was due to people toeing the line while wanting to benefit from the money fountain directed by the billionaire Blocher who it was rumoured poured millions of his own money into the party to gain support for his own views.

There are some other very rich people in leading roles but whether they are interested in using significant amounts of their own money to hold the party together has yet to be seen.
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  #228  
Old 26.11.2018, 10:27
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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Only 34% now. Nice Sunday, isn't it!
And unusually, every canton voted against the initiative -- none for. The map is a sea of red.
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  #229  
Old 26.11.2018, 10:41
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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That is the offical results.

Tom
The only "official" result is that published by the gummint. 66.2% against, 0 cantons for.
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  #230  
Old 26.11.2018, 10:46
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

Proud to be Neuchâteloise 77.4%, highest score.

Schwyz lowest, 52.9.
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  #231  
Old 26.11.2018, 11:10
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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Proud to be Neuchâteloise 77.4%, highest score.
Hardly something to be proud of.

Tom
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Old 26.11.2018, 11:40
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

In the eyes of the beholder, dear. Proud indeed.
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  #233  
Old 26.11.2018, 11:47
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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Hardly something to be proud of.

Tom
Interesting though that the people who seem to be happiest about this result are also those who most strongly believe in second referndums.

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  #234  
Old 26.11.2018, 11:49
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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Interesting though that the people who seem to be happiest about this result are also those who most strongly believe in second referndums.

In many ways this was a second referendum seeing as it was a sort-of follow-up (or at least consequence out of) to MEI.

There are anyway many examples in Switzerland of repeated referendums.
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  #235  
Old 26.11.2018, 12:01
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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Interesting though that the people who seem to be happiest about this result are also those who most strongly believe in second referendums.

The Swiss referendums are usually played fairly with decent, truthful and reliable information readily available without having to trawl tomes of legal documents deeply buried around the internet so a second referendum would probably give a similar result second time round.

The EU referendum didn't tick any of those boxes which is why Brexiteers would be properly bricking it a second time around. The result might indeed be the same but somehow I doubt it.

That's the difference...
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  #236  
Old 26.11.2018, 12:48
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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Interesting though that the people who seem to be happiest about this result are also those who most strongly believe in second referndums.

Second Referendum? Not at all the same as a First Referendum on the Final Deal - for sure.

I have in front of me the official leaflet for yesterday's votes. With clearly defined facts and also pros and cons from the inititators and the Government. They are scrutinised before publication, to ensure fairness and that they do not include clear lies. As it should be.

British people had absolutely no information to vote on - none whatsoever apart from lies- and with all real experts derided and dismissed. And they wree fed plenty of lies, fraudulently too- a very very different proposition.
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  #237  
Old 26.11.2018, 13:09
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

Odile, I disagree. The British electorate had plenary of information prior to the referendum. Regretfully much of it was untrue, or partially true. On both sided that is.
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  #238  
Old 26.11.2018, 13:24
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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Odile, I disagree. The British electorate had plenary of information prior to the referendum. Regretfully much of it was untrue, or partially true. On both sided that is.
I don't think that's information. To qualify as information a statement must be factual.
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  #239  
Old 26.11.2018, 13:26
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

Were they made aware of the problems with the Irish border, with acces to medicines, with access to water purification chemicals, flights, more immigration from Commonwealth, etc, etc, and more etc. No they did not.

Experts were derided and dismissed - and their expertise balanced with soundbites from anyone. Did the remain side benefit from large sums of money from dubious sources. Did they avail themselves of foreign media support. No.

For the vast majority of leave voters, it was a gut reaction and reaction to the Tories' policies, fired by the gutter press, Farage and Ukip. Many now know they were conned - and it is their very job which is at risk, and more austerity, not less. With respect bowlie, we will have to agree to disagree here.
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  #240  
Old 26.11.2018, 13:27
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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I don't think that's information. To qualify as information a statement must be factual.
In a perfect world perhaps… And don’t forget that the best way to lie is to tell the truth, but not all of it. (Thanks to Robert Heinlein)
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