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  #281  
Old 31.01.2020, 07:25
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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why would any Swiss want to move to Germany?
To avoid paying wealth tax and/or to avoid paying income tax on their pensions.
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  #282  
Old 31.01.2020, 08:22
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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To avoid paying wealth tax and/or to avoid paying income tax on their pensions.
Income tax is a lot higher in Germany. You start paying as from 9600 EUR pension income a year.


Edit: approx 9000 a year

Last edited by roegner; 31.01.2020 at 12:03.
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  #283  
Old 31.01.2020, 09:46
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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Income tax is a lot higher in Germany. You start paying as from 9600 EUR pension income a year.
Income tax may be far higher, there I agree. However pensions are only partially taxed in Germany. 9'600 Euro is merely the amount which is tax-free for everyone.

Only around one in four pensioners pay any income tax in Germany at present.
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  #284  
Old 31.01.2020, 09:54
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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Income tax may be far higher, there I agree. However pensions are only partially taxed in Germany. 9'600 Euro is merely the amount which is tax free for everyone.
Can you expand on this? Google's coming up with nada.
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  #285  
Old 31.01.2020, 10:01
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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Can you expand on this? Google's coming up with nada.
Are you in receipt of a pension or will you be in that situation soon? Are you looking to move to Germany to save money?
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  #286  
Old 31.01.2020, 10:04
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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Are you in receipt of a pension or will you be in that situation soon? Are you looking to move to Germany to save money?
No, but if you are putting information on a public forum, it might be a good idea to check a) if it's correct and b) if you can give any links that might help people who ARE in that situation otherwise, why post it in the first place?
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  #287  
Old 31.01.2020, 10:07
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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No, but if you are putting information on a public forum, it might be a good idea to check a) if it's correct and b) if you can give any links that might help people who ARE in that situation otherwise, why post it in the first place?
I think you'll find that the post to which I was responding also contained no link to back up the information provided. Perhaps if a link could first be provided for that?!
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  #288  
Old 31.01.2020, 10:17
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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I think you'll find that the post to which I was responding also contained no link to back up the information provided. Perhaps if a link could first be provided for that?!
Eh? You were responding to this:

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b) why would any Swiss want to move to Germany?

Tom
What kind of link were you expecting?

Look, if you can't provide a link about German pension tax, it's fine. Let me help:

https://www.thelocal.de/20191120/why...ent-since-2010

Quote:
...The sharp increase is due to a change which was introduced in 2005. Until then, a tax-free allowance of 50 percent of the pension was permitted.

Since then, the tax rate on pensions has risen by two percentage points annually.

Health and long-term care insurance contributions and some everyday expenses can also be claimed.

The tax becomes due when the total income of a pensioner exceeds the basic annual tax-free allowance (€9168 or €764 per month). The average monthly pension in 2018 was €1219.

"In the next few years, the tax burden for small and medium-sized pensions will continue to rise,” Barsch told DPA.
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  #289  
Old 31.01.2020, 10:20
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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Eh? You were responding to this
No, I was referring to the post immediately preceding the one you queried. The one from roegner saying 'You start paying as from 9600 EUR pension income a year.'
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  #290  
Old 31.01.2020, 10:22
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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Look, if you can't provide a link about German pension tax, it's fine.
I did not say that.
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  #291  
Old 31.01.2020, 11:32
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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Are you in receipt of a pension or will you be in that situation soon?
Yes.

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Are you looking to move to Germany to save money?
I would never consider such a thing.

Tom
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  #292  
Old 31.01.2020, 11:40
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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Income tax may be far higher, there I agree. However pensions are only partially taxed in Germany. 9'600 Euro is merely the amount which is tax-free for everyone.

Only around one in four pensioners pay any income tax in Germany at present.
The reason they don't pay income tax is since Germany has a crappy system and Germans did not build up a lot of pension, therefor their pension system is so poor and crappy that many people do not even reach the threshold to be liable for income tax.
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  #293  
Old 31.01.2020, 11:50
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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I would never consider such a thing.
That's your personal choice. Many Swiss disagree with you and have already moved there to save money.
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  #294  
Old 31.01.2020, 11:56
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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Income tax may be far higher, there I agree. However pensions are only partially taxed in Germany. 9'600 Euro is merely the amount which is tax-free for everyone.

Only around one in four pensioners pay any income tax in Germany at present.
As far as I can see the partial taxation only applies to the state pension and anyway as of 2020 is only 20%, reducing to nil by 2040, Private and company pensions are fully taxed so for anyone with a decent level of these Germany would be very uninteresting.

The "one in four" was back before 2015 and is increasing. The number is still rather low simply because most German pensioners receive little income.

The reason for living in Germany would be rather the lower cost of living (if you avoid the south of the country)
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  #295  
Old 31.01.2020, 12:04
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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As far as I can see the partial taxation only applies to the state pension and anyway as of 2020 is only 20%, reducing to nil by 2040, Private and company pensions are fully taxed so for anyone with a decent level of these Germany would be very uninteresting.
The number is still rather low simply because most German pensioners receive little income.
The reason for living in Germany would be rather the lower cost of living (if you avoid the south of the country)
Perhaps the people moving there are living off savings as well, since these are not taxed either.
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  #296  
Old 31.01.2020, 12:05
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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Perhaps the people moving there are living off savings as well, since these are not taxed either.

Not yet. The SPD is restarting the discussion to tax that as well (for obvious reasons.....)
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  #297  
Old 31.01.2020, 12:06
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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Not yet.
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  #298  
Old 31.01.2020, 12:30
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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Are you in receipt of a pension or will you be in that situation soon? Are you looking to move to Germany to save money?
What difference does that make?

I’m sure there are other people on here in that situation so a link to the relevant sites would be appreciated. Posting vague comments without links to back them up is really pretty pointless.
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  #299  
Old 31.01.2020, 12:54
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

Yes, there are certainly certainly users here who already know (or surmise) that once they retire
  • they will not be able to afford to live in Switzerland, or
  • they will not be able to continue to live in Switzerland at the standard of living they would like to maintain, or
  • their permits will come to an end so thay will have to leave whether or not they wish to do so
and such people are having to considering other options.

So yes, Belgianmum is right: any information about how that would work for retirees moving to Germany (or to any other country) is a useful contribution to this forum.
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  #300  
Old 31.01.2020, 12:59
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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That's your personal choice. Many Swiss disagree with you and have already moved there to save money.
Horrid food, horrid language, horrid politics.

I'd rather die in poverty.

Tom
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