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  #21  
Old 13.10.2018, 21:22
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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If I only could go to polls, I would vote either “yes” or “no” and not “maybe” for sure.

When in Suisse, do as the Swiss do
Maybe isn't a possible vote here anyway. That is a British phenomena only.
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  #22  
Old 13.10.2018, 21:45
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

If you please...

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I don't follow the SVP, actually, they are an insignificant party around here.

Tom
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Old 13.10.2018, 21:55
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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Maybe isn't a possible vote here anyway. That is a British phenomena only.
Er... nope. Not in any I've seen. "None of the above" isn't an option either. Spoiling a ballot is about the only way to "register" dissatisfaction but personally I've never really seen the value in that.
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  #24  
Old 13.10.2018, 22:21
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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Pretty safe to go against whatever is proposed or recommended by (at least) racists
Which is why I always votes against the Greens and PS.

Tom
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Old 14.10.2018, 00:44
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

It is another thinly disguised attempt from the SVP to disrupt any international agreements the Swiss have with the EU and with other partners.

You only have to look at Brexit to understand what a major mess a country gets into when they have a referendum to stop something but have no clue or an agreed position on what to replace the something with!
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Old 14.10.2018, 03:17
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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Pretty safe to go against whatever is proposed or recommended by (at least) racists
How is it to live in a black and white world? I'm not an SVP voter either, but it's just intellectual laziness to dismiss a political movement/idea simply by calling them racists (which isn't even true for most of SVP anyways).

PS: same is obviously true on the other side.

Last edited by scipio; 14.10.2018 at 04:08.
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  #27  
Old 14.10.2018, 07:23
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

Let's put it this way. SVP is the Swiss version of KKK
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Old 14.10.2018, 07:36
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

More like UKKKIP


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Let's put it this way. SVP is the Swiss version of KKK
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  #29  
Old 14.10.2018, 10:43
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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It is another thinly disguised attempt from the SVP to disrupt any international agreements the Swiss have with the EU and with other partners.
FTFY.

So of course we will vote in favor.

Tom
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Old 14.10.2018, 11:54
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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How is it to live in a black and white world? I'm not an SVP voter either, but it's just intellectual laziness to dismiss a political movement/idea simply by calling them racists (which isn't even true for most of SVP anyways).

PS: same is obviously true on the other side.
I am sure some very nice people have some very nasty policies
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  #31  
Old 14.10.2018, 12:18
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

My first thought was definitely NO!

However, I want to see specific examples of changes they want to see. SVP are experts on writing fuzzy referendums that are hard to implement.
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  #32  
Old 14.10.2018, 12:56
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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It is another thinly disguised attempt from the SVP to disrupt any international agreements the Swiss have with the EU and with other partners.

You only have to look at Brexit to understand what a major mess a country gets into when they have a referendum to stop something but have no clue or an agreed position on what to replace the something with!
Absolutely. That is why for several hundreds of years, Switzerland is spiraling down, down, down, everybody avoids coming here like the pest and those who are forced to live here are slowly but surely starving to death, are physically and mentally oppressed.


Shouldn't comparing Brits voting with Swiss voting be in the terrible joke thread?
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  #33  
Old 15.10.2018, 14:26
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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How is it to live in a black and white world? I'm not an SVP voter either, but it's just intellectual laziness to dismiss a political movement/idea simply by calling them racists (which isn't even true for most of SVP anyways).

PS: same is obviously true on the other side.
Of course most things are nuanced and complicated. But SVP and their fear-mongering posters and initiatives are racist (or at least have been racist for my 4 years here). Just google "SVP posters".

Therefore I think that for some things, like opposition to Trump or SVP, no mental gymnastics are needed. Just say no to all of that shit.

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Absolutely. That is why for several hundreds of years, Switzerland is spiraling down, down, down,
Well it might be getting worse if the current discussions with EU go south and this initiative is a contributing factor.

https://www.thelocal.ch/20180627/new...swiss-eu-talks

Last edited by Bozza; 15.10.2018 at 14:39.
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Old 15.10.2018, 16:33
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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Of course most things are nuanced and complicated. But SVP and their fear-mongering posters and initiatives are racist (or at least have been racist for my 4 years here). Just google "SVP posters".

Therefore I think that for some things, like opposition to Trump or SVP, no mental gymnastics are needed. Just say no to all of that shit.
I respect your opinion, however, I think that oversimplification is one of the big issues in today's political discussions. There are no easy solutions. That is also true when having opposite views from SVP (or Trump).

If you articulate why you oppose a political view, you might contribute to solving some of the concerns of the voters. If you simply call them racists you most likely add fuel to their argument/to the heated political atmosphere.
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  #35  
Old 15.10.2018, 17:01
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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Of course most things are nuanced and complicated. But SVP and their fear-mongering posters and initiatives are racist (or at least have been racist for my 4 years here). Just google "SVP posters".

Therefore I think that for some things, like opposition to Trump or SVP, no mental gymnastics are needed. Just say no to all of that shit.



Well it might be getting worse if the current discussions with EU go south and this initiative is a contributing factor.

https://www.thelocal.ch/20180627/new...swiss-eu-talks
The thread is about the self-determination initiative. You mingle in the anti freedom of movement initiative.
The self-determination initiative is about much, much more than just the freedom of movement, even if the subjects have touching points.

SVP is part of the Swiss political landscape and also part of the "Bundesrat". In this country we don't (well, most of us don't ) just ignore people who embrace their political rights and their ideas/demands/concerns. We study each and every one, we make an individual decision about each and every one. The good ones we agree on, the crazy ones make us get up on specific Sundays to (try to) make sure they don't get through. All of them keep us on our toes.

The way you post is - in my opinion - no different from the way SVP papers the billboards.
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  #36  
Old 15.10.2018, 17:23
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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Therefore I think that for some things, like opposition to Trump or SVP, no mental gymnastics are needed. Just say no to all of that shit.
I hope you never get to vote in switzerland. Not because you don't agree with the SVP (neither do I in this topic), but because have no sense for the responsibility a voter has).

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I respect your opinion, however, I think that oversimplification is one of the big issues in today's political discussions. There are no easy solutions. That is also true when having opposite views from SVP (or Trump).

If you articulate why you oppose a political view, you might contribute to solving some of the concerns of the voters. If you simply call them racists you most likely add fuel to their argument/to the heated political atmosphere.
Thank you, we dont want US- conditions here.
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  #37  
Old 15.10.2018, 19:48
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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I don't follow the SVP, actually, they are an insignificant party around here.

Tom
Yep- Considered a bunch of wishy-washy liberals down your way.
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  #38  
Old 15.10.2018, 20:04
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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I hope you never get to vote in switzerland. Not because you don't agree with the SVP (neither do I in this topic), but because have no sense for the responsibility a voter has).

Thank you, we dont want US- conditions here.
Is there a reason you spell Switzerland with a small "s"? Some sort of Freudian slip related to your POV?
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  #39  
Old 15.10.2018, 21:02
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

Currently in Switzerland we don’t have a system of constitutional justice: neither abstract or concrete control can be exerciced when a federal law violates the constitution. This is because of article 190 of the federal constitution which requires authorities to enforce federal laws and treaties without exception. Basically this means that a law that violates a constitutional guarantee such as the right to life of the guarantee of property must be enforced, regardless of its compatibility with the federal constitution.
Federal jurisprudence has developed in such a way that article 190’s application is combined with article 5 to place international law above national law: “The Confederation and the Cantons must respect international law” . In so doing, constitutional guarantees are in place because the ECHR (guarantees almost as many rights as the federal constitution).
There’s a great deal of misunderstanding with regards to norms of international law. Regardless of what the Swiss constitution says, we are bound by all the treaties that the federal council has ratified (ratification is a competency of the federal council). International law is clear that internal rules are not a valid justification to not respect international obligations.
And a side note to anyone who thinks the EU is somehow related to this all: the ECHR is a text related to the Council of Europe, of which Switzerland is a member. The only European country not party to the ECHR is Belarus...
This is another sensationalist initiative from the UDC that won’t do any good for the country, unless you consider abolishing constitutional guarantees as good...
For these reasons I will be voting no.
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  #40  
Old 15.10.2018, 21:27
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Re: SVP self-determination initiative

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Yep- Considered a bunch of wishy-washy liberals down your way.
Nope, right-wing nutters.

Tom
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