Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12.04.2019, 13:15
Tuborg's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 506
Groaned at 32 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 672 Times in 260 Posts
Tuborg has a reputation beyond reputeTuborg has a reputation beyond reputeTuborg has a reputation beyond reputeTuborg has a reputation beyond repute
Swiss court overrules referendum result.

Any chance of our political masters in Westminster having a period of reflection?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...oorly-informed
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12.04.2019, 13:18
gbn's Avatar
gbn gbn is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Zuri Oberland
Posts: 2,718
Groaned at 109 Times in 74 Posts
Thanked 2,333 Times in 1,097 Posts
gbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss court overrules referendum result.

Quote:
View Post
Any chance of our political masters in Westminster having a period of reflection?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...oorly-informed
The UK parliament has overridden or ignored it already.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank gbn for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 12.04.2019, 13:24
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,761
Groaned at 212 Times in 180 Posts
Thanked 20,617 Times in 8,790 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss court overrules referendum result.

Quote:
View Post
Any chance of our political masters in Westminster having a period of reflection?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...oorly-informed
Maybe there is a huge lesson for the Uk here.

In Switzerland, everybody accepted the result of the referendum, but the initiators went their way and had the matter looked at by judges in a professional and restrained manner. That's what you do if you want to be taken seriously. They didn't run around like headless chickens or accuse the other side of being Hitler controlled by Putin or rant about things written on buses or predict we would run out of toilet paper or that the moon would crash into the Yorkshire coast. They didn't demand that the government resign or apply for Irish (or Liechtenstein) passports or insult anybody who disagreed with them. They didn't march on Bern wearing silly hats or predict swarms of locusts.

Last edited by amogles; 12.04.2019 at 13:38.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 12.04.2019, 13:33
Swisstree's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hants/ZH
Posts: 2,889
Groaned at 44 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 6,604 Times in 2,243 Posts
Swisstree has a reputation beyond reputeSwisstree has a reputation beyond reputeSwisstree has a reputation beyond reputeSwisstree has a reputation beyond reputeSwisstree has a reputation beyond reputeSwisstree has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss court overrules referendum result.

The UK referendum was about the tory party and not the referendum. They didn't put much thought into it before the vote and not since. They don't care. All solutions are about keeping it together, sod the fact it wasn't run correctly in the first place and very few understood what was going on.. and still don't.

A 2nd Ref. would turn the whole thing on its head in a matter of hours.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Swisstree for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 12.04.2019, 13:40
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 9,234
Groaned at 131 Times in 112 Posts
Thanked 9,886 Times in 5,271 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss court overrules referendum result.

Quote:
View Post
The UK referendum was about the tory party and not the referendum. They didn't put much thought into it before the vote and not since. They don't care. All solutions are about keeping it together, sod the fact it wasn't run correctly in the first place and very few understood what was going on.. and still don't.

A 2nd Ref. would turn the whole thing on its head in a matter of hours.
I wonder if it would.
As an outsider I really think they should have a second referendum. And make it binding. After all, there should be enough information now?

But you said in an earlier post that there is not enough time to have a second referendum?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12.04.2019, 13:43
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 10,929
Groaned at 166 Times in 144 Posts
Thanked 15,511 Times in 6,274 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss court overrules referendum result.

Quote:
View Post
But you said in an earlier post that there is not enough time to have a second referendum?
Just extend A50 for another 50 years. That should do it.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 12.04.2019, 13:45
Swisstree's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hants/ZH
Posts: 2,889
Groaned at 44 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 6,604 Times in 2,243 Posts
Swisstree has a reputation beyond reputeSwisstree has a reputation beyond reputeSwisstree has a reputation beyond reputeSwisstree has a reputation beyond reputeSwisstree has a reputation beyond reputeSwisstree has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss court overrules referendum result.

Quote:
View Post
I wonder if it would.
As an outsider I really think they should have a second referendum. And make it binding. After all, there should be enough information now?

But you said in an earlier post that there is not enough time to have a second referendum?
They would get a further extension to hold a 2nd Ref.

I live in the UK. It would be turned on its head. This is why many Brexit MPs/ERG do not want another Ref.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Swisstree for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 12.04.2019, 13:45
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,761
Groaned at 212 Times in 180 Posts
Thanked 20,617 Times in 8,790 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss court overrules referendum result.

Quote:
View Post
I wonder if it would.
As an outsider I really think they should have a second referendum. And make it binding. After all, there should be enough information now?

But you said in an earlier post that there is not enough time to have a second referendum?
You can only have a binding referendum (on anything other than no-deal) if the EU also agrees to their part beforehand. So the complete text of the agreement would have to be published and both sides would pledge to accept and enact the outcome, whether it suited them or not.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12.04.2019, 13:52
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Leimbach, Zürich
Posts: 5,558
Groaned at 317 Times in 252 Posts
Thanked 6,109 Times in 3,079 Posts
EdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss court overrules referendum result.

Quote:
View Post
You can only have a binding referendum (on anything other than no-deal) if the EU also agrees to their part beforehand. So the complete text of the agreement would have to be published and both sides would pledge to accept and enact the outcome, whether it suited them or not.
But why would the EU negotiate under the terms of "well perhaps we might do it, but also big change that we just throw it all in the bin anyway" Negotiating should have a clear goal imho which is to work together to get an agreement which will be accepted. But not "let's make a whole plan and after that decide if we even need a plan"
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12.04.2019, 13:54
Sandgrounder's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ZH
Posts: 13,477
Groaned at 124 Times in 115 Posts
Thanked 24,410 Times in 9,439 Posts
Sandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss court overrules referendum result.

Going back to the Swiss vote, it's not clear from the article whether they will re-run it. This is the only paragraph which alludes to future processes but I can't see whether they'll actually do a re-run (or it could be because I'm scrolling uselessly on my phone...)

Quote:
The federal government said it would “draw the necessary consequences” from the ruling and had already set up a study group to “propose additional measures to ensure the quality of preparation for decisions to be made by citizens”.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Sandgrounder for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 12.04.2019, 14:00
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 9,234
Groaned at 131 Times in 112 Posts
Thanked 9,886 Times in 5,271 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss court overrules referendum result.

Quote:
View Post
Just extend A50 for another 50 years. That should do it.
Yep, that would probably be the most preferred one in GB too.

Quote:
View Post
You can only have a binding referendum (on anything other than no-deal) if the EU also agrees to their part beforehand. So the complete text of the agreement would have to be published and both sides would pledge to accept and enact the outcome, whether it suited them or not.
It has not been published by now ??!!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12.04.2019, 14:05
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 10,282
Groaned at 78 Times in 69 Posts
Thanked 15,542 Times in 6,904 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss court overrules referendum result.

Quote:
View Post
Going back to the Swiss vote, it's not clear from the article whether they will re-run it. This is the only paragraph which alludes to future processes but I can't see whether they'll actually do a re-run (or it could be because I'm scrolling uselessly on my phone...)
AFAIK it will first have to go back to parliament, parliament might propose a counter option (especially as the current text is seen as a Trojan horse which would introduce a definition of marriage into the constitution), the changes might be put in law w/o a constitutional change, and the initiative committee my pull its own version any time.

If there will be a vote and if it will be the same text is still open.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 12.04.2019, 14:26
Troublawesome's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Zug
Posts: 1,053
Groaned at 201 Times in 120 Posts
Thanked 968 Times in 435 Posts
Troublawesome has annoyed a few people around hereTroublawesome has annoyed a few people around here
Re: Swiss court overrules referendum result.

Maybe then the dreaded marriage penalty will be abolished. If only they didn't have theta stupid gay couples clause last time it would have passed.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Troublawesome for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 12.04.2019, 15:07
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Leimbach, Zürich
Posts: 5,558
Groaned at 317 Times in 252 Posts
Thanked 6,109 Times in 3,079 Posts
EdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss court overrules referendum result.

Quote:
View Post
Maybe then the dreaded marriage penalty will be abolished. If only they didn't have theta stupid gay couples clause last time it would have passed.
Probably,

It also might have passed if they would have said that 908.000 people are financially penalised for getting/being married instead of only 160.000. Also they stated that 720.000 people were better of with the current system while this only turned out to be 648.000 people.

The numbers they stated might give a middle-class working couple the idea that they are not penalised under the current system since it is only for the rich and might even get them extra money, while the correct numbers might make them realise that it does indeed effect much quicker than they thought.

What they stated:

- penalised 5.3% of married couples
- gaining money 24,7% of married couples
- not effected 70%

The truth:

- penalised 30.3% of married couples
- gaining money 21.6% of married couples
- not effected 48.1%

(used the total of 1.500.000 married couples which is referred to everywhere)

And yes, this should be about marriage, the debate if people of same sex should be able to marry, or be fully equal to it legally should be another debate.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank EdwinNL for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 12.04.2019, 15:18
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Greater Zurich
Posts: 398
Groaned at 10 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 80 Times in 61 Posts
higgsboson has slipped a little
Re: Swiss court overrules referendum result.

If they do re-run and if it passes the re-run, then there is the extra taxes many couples paid between the first and the secnd run...


Quote:
View Post
What they stated:

- penalised 5.3% of married couples
I do remember being utterly surprised at the time because I certainly didn't expect to be in such a small minority. Ok, working couple is not that of a norm in Switzerland. But, only 5%?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12.04.2019, 15:25
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Leimbach, Zürich
Posts: 5,558
Groaned at 317 Times in 252 Posts
Thanked 6,109 Times in 3,079 Posts
EdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss court overrules referendum result.

Quote:
View Post
If they do re-run and if it passes the re-run, I would gladly support the first person who goes to the court and demands for the extra taxes they paid between the first and the secnd run...




I do remember, being utterly surprised at the time because I certainly didn't expect to be in such a small minority. Ok, working couple is not that of a norm in Switzerland, but, only 5%?
Working couples are very normal, it is just when kids come around the corner that mostly mum will stay home for the first years since daycare is very expensive. And when the kids go to school both can work again if they please. It might make a difference when comparing Zürich to for example Ticino or the countryside. But living in Zürich the large majority of the couples I know have a situation where both work.

That low number simply made me doubt my understanding of how taxing changes for married couples, while it actually is very simple all income goes on one file and thus taxation is higher, so every married couple where both work are penalised.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank EdwinNL for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 12.04.2019, 17:00
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,761
Groaned at 212 Times in 180 Posts
Thanked 20,617 Times in 8,790 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss court overrules referendum result.

Quote:
View Post
Going back to the Swiss vote, it's not clear from the article whether they will re-run it. This is the only paragraph which alludes to future processes but I can't see whether they'll actually do a re-run (or it could be because I'm scrolling uselessly on my phone...)
Well, it is the Guardian.

I wonder if, living in Switzerland, there are better ways to stay in touch with what's happening in Switzerland?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12.04.2019, 17:11
Sandgrounder's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ZH
Posts: 13,477
Groaned at 124 Times in 115 Posts
Thanked 24,410 Times in 9,439 Posts
Sandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss court overrules referendum result.

Quote:
View Post
Well, it is the Guardian.

I wonder if, living in Switzerland, there are better ways to stay in touch with what's happening in Switzerland?
aSITUS seems to have it covered...
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12.04.2019, 23:53
Tuborg's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 506
Groaned at 32 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 672 Times in 260 Posts
Tuborg has a reputation beyond reputeTuborg has a reputation beyond reputeTuborg has a reputation beyond reputeTuborg has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss court overrules referendum result.

Quote:
View Post
Well, it is the Guardian.

I wonder if, living in Switzerland, there are better ways to stay in touch with what's happening in Switzerland?
Surely you don't mean - heaven forbid - reading Swiss newspapers? I mean, one would have to learn French, German or Italian!

Next you will be advocating for us to integrate...
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank Tuborg for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 13.04.2019, 14:28
SponPlague's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: 8045 Zurich
Posts: 116
Groaned at 9 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 124 Times in 87 Posts
SponPlague has earned the respect of manySponPlague has earned the respect of manySponPlague has earned the respect of many
Re: Swiss court overrules referendum result.

Or you could try sites like Swissinfo.ch...
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Minimum attendance in Swiss referendum Tobultok Swiss politics/news 26 11.04.2014 07:59
Swiss referendum backs executive pay curbs Swiss Cheddar Swiss politics/news 0 04.03.2013 12:09
Swiss hold referendum referendum The Local Swiss news via The Local 1 15.06.2012 11:43
Swiss customer service #594:Orange - A Result. Leafy Daily life 5 03.10.2010 12:45
Swiss referendum, March 2010 - any advice jbrady Swiss politics/news 52 08.03.2010 13:10


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:32.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0