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Old 28.04.2019, 17:58
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Change to gun laws? [thread split]

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Not this time, but it will be sometime.

This time it's about arms and some rubbish fiscal reform, 2x NO.

Tom
A rejection of the gun laws would absolutely cause a problem! And since there is no reason whatsoever for people to be in position of such weapons it makes very good sense and should be accepted. Any initiative that takes weapons beyond a .22 rifle and a farmer’s shotgun out of people’s hands will have my vote.
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Old 28.04.2019, 18:23
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Re: swiss eu labour issues

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A rejection of the gun laws would absolutely cause a problem! And since there is no reason whatsoever for people to be in position of such weapons it makes very good sense and should be accepted. Any initiative that takes weapons beyond a .22 rifle and a farmer’s shotgun out of people’s hands will have my vote.
Even a .22 Magnum won't take down a boar, and we have far too many around here, same with deer.

Tom
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Old 28.04.2019, 18:42
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Re: swiss eu labour issues

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Even a .22 Magnum won't take down a boar, and we have far too many around here, same with deer.

Tom
Single shot hunting rifles also need to be exempted, for licensed hunters/gamekeepers. Gotta keep those pesky deer from trampling down all the crops.
Ooh, the damage they cause.

There's no need for army rifles, semi-automatics, handguns etc, etc.
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Old 29.04.2019, 15:45
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Re: swiss eu labour issues

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A rejection of the gun laws would absolutely cause a problem! And since there is no reason whatsoever for people to be in position of such weapons it makes very good sense and should be accepted. Any initiative that takes weapons beyond a .22 rifle and a farmer’s shotgun out of people’s hands will have my vote.
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Single shot hunting rifles also need to be exempted, for licensed hunters/gamekeepers. Gotta keep those pesky deer from trampling down all the crops.
Ooh, the damage they cause.

There's no need for army rifles, semi-automatics, handguns etc, etc.
Just for the record: Guns are not banned in the EU and I hate how the Toms and SVPs of the world make blanket statements and blame everything on "them Eurocrats". Its perfectly legal to have some fun guns like say a .45 Sig Sauer in Germany. No, it wont be good for hunting deer… and hunting guns are no problem anywhere in the EU.

But: A full auto assault rifle like in Switzerland? You dont really need one of those for sport or home Defence in any way. The only use case is to be able to shoot many people in a short time. And thats the reason they are banned… the Swiss tradition of keeping your army weapon at home pre dates modern assault rifles by a few centuries… and as so often did they just not adapt.

Gun laws seem to be the same as abortion law discussions: 90% of the people tend to one of the extremes instead of a balanced solution.
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Old 29.04.2019, 17:11
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Re: swiss eu labour issues

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Even a .22 Magnum won't take down a boar, and we have far too many around here, same with deer.

Tom
You don't need to that is why I said a .22. Just boys with their toys nothing else.
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Old 29.04.2019, 21:33
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Re: swiss eu labour issues

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You don't need to that is why I said a .22. Just boys with their toys nothing else.
You'd be surprised what we jack in the back yard around here.

Not that I ever would, personally.

The taste is worth it!

Tom
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Old 29.04.2019, 21:37
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Re: swiss eu labour issues

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I hate how the Toms and SVPs of the world make blanket statements and blame everything on "them Eurocrats".
And I hate "them Eurocrats".

"them Eurocrats" was one of my major motivations to become Swiss 24 years ago. They can all go to hell!

Tom
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Old 30.04.2019, 07:08
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Re: swiss eu labour issues

Explains all the groans

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we jack in the back yard
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Old 30.04.2019, 09:34
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Re: Change to gun laws? [thread split]

The argument of not needing something and therefore banning people from having it has always sat badly with me. Taken outside of the firearms context there'd be no car with more than 100bhp, or you'd need to apply for permission for your watch collection because a 10 CHF digital cheapy does the same thing and you should be happy to have it becuase you also have a phone.

I know the argument is that guns can kill, sure, but considering that illegally smuggled firearms will continue to exist to be used by criminals, I don't see the point of banning what were previously legally held and registered categories of firearms.
What also sits badly is the lack of definition of the rules. You can make a firearm illegal by putting the wrong magazine in it with these new laws.
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Old 30.04.2019, 10:53
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Re: Change to gun laws? [thread split]

First of all, fully automatic weapons are illegal in Switzerland now already. The proposal is to ban semi automatic weapons with magazines that hold 25 bullets or more. What I don't understand is what happens if you have a gun which accepts both 10 bullet magazines and 30 bullet magazines. Is it just the magazines that will be banned or the gun itself?
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Old 30.04.2019, 10:57
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Re: Change to gun laws? [thread split]

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The argument of not needing something and therefore banning people from having it has always sat badly with me. Taken outside of the firearms context there'd be no car with more than 100bhp, or you'd need to apply for permission for your watch collection because a 10 CHF digital cheapy does the same thing and you should be happy to have it becuase you also have a phone.
Why take it out of context? Do you have any statistics on people running amok with wristwatches?
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Old 30.04.2019, 10:59
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Re: Change to gun laws? [thread split]

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The argument of not needing something and therefore banning people from having it has always sat badly with me. Taken outside of the firearms context there'd be no car with more than 100bhp, or you'd need to apply for permission for your watch collection because a 10 CHF digital cheapy does the same thing and you should be happy to have it becuase you also have a phone.
How many people have been killed using automatic watches?
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I know the argument is that guns can kill, sure, but considering that illegally smuggled firearms will continue to exist to be used by criminals, I don't see the point of banning what were previously legally held and registered categories of firearms.
What also sits badly is the lack of definition of the rules. You can make a firearm illegal by putting the wrong magazine in it with these new laws.
Hard drugs are outlawed yet they still get smuggled in. Fraud and murder are illegal yet they still happen.

Therefore, and only by what you would claim to be your "logic", we should drop all that illegality nonsense and be done with all laws.
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Old 30.04.2019, 11:01
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Re: Change to gun laws? [thread split]

I kind of have an indirect way to vote, my GF has a Swiss passport and always gives me all the voting papers as she is not interested.

I've decided not to vote on the gun law change, even though I am opposed to it. I feel it is something quintessentially Swiss, very engrained in the culture and history etc. Same for the consequences of being thrown out of Schengen (or whatever the consequences are), being independent and not in the EU is a very Swiss thing.

And therefore as a foreigner I feel I do not have the right to enter a vote...

I groaned the OP as I find his post too 'gutmensch' , having too much of a tone 'look how good a person I am'. I despise 'gutmensch' type people.
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Old 30.04.2019, 11:13
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Re: Change to gun laws? [thread split]

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I kind of have an indirect way to vote, my GF has a Swiss passport and always gives me all the voting papers as she is not interested.

I've decided not to vote on the gun law change, even though I am opposed to it. I feel it is something quintessentially Swiss, very engrained in the culture and history etc. Same for the consequences of being thrown out of Schengen (or whatever the consequences are), being independent and not in the EU is a very Swiss thing.

And therefore as a foreigner I feel I do not have the right to enter a vote...

I groaned the OP as I find his post too 'gutmensch' , having too much of a tone 'look how good a person I am'. I despise 'gutmensch' type people.
Isn't that a bit risky 'fessing up to that on a public forum?
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Old 30.04.2019, 11:21
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Re: Change to gun laws? [thread split]

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Why take it out of context? Do you have any statistics on people running amok with wristwatches?
I know a man who lost an eye to a mainspring, if only he tried to take apart a quartz instead. Silly argument from my side.
I'm sure google can find plenty of evidence of cars being used as weapons in europe. So because they can be used as weapons we should all take the bus and leave driving to the qualified professionals.

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How many people have been killed using automatic watches?

Hard drugs are outlawed yet they still get smuggled in. Fraud and murder are illegal yet they still happen.

Therefore, and only by what you would claim to be your "logic", we should drop all that illegality nonsense and be done with all laws.
Yes hard drugs are still illegal, or you need a prescription for some of the stronger opioids, I'm not saying this should change. Fully automatic firearms are illegal here in most cases, or highly controlled for those who want to jump through the many hoops. I'm sorry, I'm not following how you read me saying that the current regulations should stay as me saying be done with laws and have a free for all.
I know this is a topic which people get extremely passionate about and I understand that some people say no guns, ever for any reason. At the same time there are many people who enjoy shooting as a pastime and I don't know why people want to take that from them. It's not the same as the US where there is a massive problem with homicide by firearms and people see them as the only option to "defend" themselves from the society they live in, I don't see that here at all, here people use them for sport. It's a completely different culture.
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Old 30.04.2019, 11:21
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Re: Change to gun laws? [thread split]

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Why take it out of context? Do you have any statistics on people running amok with wristwatches?
Then again there are more examples of people running amok with cars than there are people running amok with guns, unless you count Americans.
For normally adjusted gun owners, like you get in CH , a semi-auto is just that, nothing more, nothing less, no more or less dangerous than a .22.

You can buy blackpowder by the kilo in CH without any checks at all, you just need to promise that you won´t use it to cause explosions. (true) and I don´t see craters in the middle of Bern.
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Old 30.04.2019, 11:35
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Re: Change to gun laws? [thread split]

And even in a country like NL (where I am from). If you want to there are always ways. You could even go so far as getting a steel tube, big ball bearing, powder from (legal) fireworks and build yourself a musket.

A guy in CH wanting a 50 round magazine for his STGW57, there is metal and metal working tools available everywhere...
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Old 30.04.2019, 11:41
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Re: Change to gun laws? [thread split]

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First of all, fully automatic weapons are illegal in Switzerland now already. The proposal is to ban semi automatic weapons with magazines that hold 25 bullets or more. What I don't understand is what happens if you have a gun which accepts both 10 bullet magazines and 30 bullet magazines. Is it just the magazines that will be banned or the gun itself?
More than 20 rounds for Faustfeuerwaffen (Pistols and such)
More than 10 rounds for Handfeuerwaffen (Riffles and such)

You can get a permit/exemption if you are a member of a shooting club or a partake regularly in sport shooting events.

https://www.admin.ch/gov/de/start/do...ntent_par_tabs

Btw: Most weapons are semi automatic.
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Old 30.04.2019, 11:55
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Re: Change to gun laws? [thread split]

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More than 20 rounds for Faustfeuerwaffen (Pistols and such)
More than 10 rounds for Handfeuerwaffen (Riffles and such)

You can get a permit/exemption if you are a member of a shooting club or a partake regularly in sport shooting events.

https://www.admin.ch/gov/de/start/do...ntent_par_tabs

Btw: Most weapons are semi automatic.
Thanks but what if you have a Handfeuerwaffe / Rifle which accepts 10 round magazines ? Do you need a Special Permit in this case? - ok, I read the link, whoever has such a weapon can Keep it.
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Old 30.04.2019, 12:00
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Re: Change to gun laws? [thread split]

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Thanks but what if you have a Handfeuerwaffe / Rifle which accepts 10 round magazines ? Do you need a Special Permit in this case?
As far as I understand, it applies to the magazines and not the weapon it self.
Constructing a rifle which only accepts 10 round magazines might be possible, but I assume only a few of those exists.
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