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Old 31.07.2019, 10:34
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Waedenswil resident throws family in front of train in Germany...

Well, this was the main news story in Germany in the last days but somehow hasnt made it on here:

Last weekend did a man throw a mother and her eight year old boy in front of a high speed train at Frankfurt station. The mother was badly injured, the boy died. Bystanders managed to chase down the guy and were essential in his arrest.

The summary:
- 40yr old guy living in Waedenswil (ZH)
- moved to CH from Eritrea in 2006, married, children, works for the Zurich transport company…
- no previous criminal record, but psychological issues and in therapy for the last six months.
- assaulted his neighbour last week and fled, so the Swiss police had a nation wide arrest warrant out.
- Even with Schengen is it apparently enough to cross the border to evade the warrant as German police had no idea about it... so even if he had been in a random control was there no way he would have been picked up.
- Swiss police defend the situation: an EU wide arrest warrent is only issued for dangerous criminals. As the guy had no previous track record and "only" assaulted his neighbour… well, he wasnt considered a bad enough guy.


In Germany is there a full on public debate with the typical bullshit. The interior minister demands more cops and cameras… how they would help a case like this is beyond me (and Frankfurt station is full of cameras already, so we dont have any lack of evidence at all).

https://www.20min.ch/schweiz/news/st...land--10015951

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49155293
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Old 31.07.2019, 10:48
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Re: Waedenswil resident throws family in front of train in Germany...

I read somewhere yesterday that he had also locked his family in the apartment and they had to be freed by the police.

Found it: https://www.tio.ch/svizzera/cronaca/...lizia-svizzera

"Quel giorno la polizia cantonale zurighese ha ricevuto una chiamata della moglie per un episodio di violenza domestica non meglio precisato. Secondo quanto hanno dichiarato oggi i suoi responsabili in una conferenza stampa, gli agenti arrivati sul posto hanno trovato quattro persone rinchiuse nell'appartamento della famiglia: la moglie, i figli di 1, 3 e 4 anni e una vicina di casa. Quest'ultima è anche stata aggredita e minacciata con un coltello, ma non ha riportato ferite."

"That day, the cantonal police received a call from the wife for an episode of domestic abuse (details not given). According to the police, when the police arrived, they found four people locked in the apartment: the wife, three children, and a neighbor (umm, that makes 5). The neighbor had been attacked and menaced with a knife, but had no injuries."

Tom
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Old 31.07.2019, 11:14
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Re: Waedenswil resident throws family in front of train in Germany...

The interior minister, Horst Seehofer interrupted his holidays to call a crisis meeting, even if on average there are about three hundred homicides every year in Germany.
I'm genuinely wondering why such an overreaction, if even the ARD in its Monday main Tagesschau dedicated little time and attention to it at the end of its news program.
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Old 31.07.2019, 11:28
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Re: Waedenswil resident throws family in front of train in Germany...

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I'm genuinely wondering why such an overreaction, if even the ARD in its Monday main Tagesschau dedicated little time and attention to it at the end of its news program.
The vast majority of homicides are either family dramas or somehow crime related. The idea that some guy pushes an unrelated person into an oncoming train is essentially terrorism - it terrorizes people. It was the second rather exceptional homicide in two weeks (the first one being some Nazi shooting a random African on the street… equally terrorizing for anyone non-white). Its his job to do "something", especially after he was very quiet after the last couple of hate crimes…

I dont buy the bullshit about the "had to stop his vacation"... all of parliament had to stop their vacation last week as we got a new defense minister who had to be sworn in. So I am sure his vacation plans were screwed up anyways… and this was the perfect case to ask for more resourced for his misguided "law and order" ideas. Even the police trade union publicly stated that more cops wont be an answer to this…
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Old 31.07.2019, 11:57
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Re: Waedenswil resident throws family in front of train in Germany...

I recently learnt that a neighbour of mine has been sentenced to prison for 4 years, apparently, because he got involved in a friendly argument with another guy from his country.

So just don't assume you're always getting the fully story.
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Old 31.07.2019, 12:10
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Re: Waedenswil resident throws family in front of train in Germany...

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...I'm genuinely wondering why such an overreaction...
Murder is bad, but it's in the news all the time so we're somewhat immune to hearing about it. Murder of a child is extra bad and it doesn't happen often, so it's an opportunity everyone to wring their hands a bit more, and for the politicians to try and prove they care and are doing something about it.
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Old 31.07.2019, 12:10
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Re: Waedenswil resident throws family in front of train in Germany...

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The interior minister, Horst Seehofer interrupted his holidays to call a crisis meeting, even if on average there are about three hundred homicides every year in Germany.
I'm genuinely wondering why such an overreaction, if even the ARD in its Monday main Tagesschau dedicated little time and attention to it at the end of its news program.
Pushing an 8 year old in front of a train is not an average homicide. No doubt the German authorities will respond appropriately by clamping down on online hate crime.
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Old 31.07.2019, 12:19
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Re: Waedenswil resident throws family in front of train in Germany...

What happened in Germany was an unforseeable tragedy by a mentally-ill man.
I don't agree that it was an act of terrorism simply because there was no motive. I find the idea that the man committed unpremeditated murder as a subconscious call for help to be more plausible.
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Old 31.07.2019, 12:25
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Re: Waedenswil resident throws family in front of train in Germany...

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What happened in Germany was an unforseeable tragedy by a mentally-ill man.
I don't agree that it was an act of terrorism simply because there was no motive. I find the idea that the man committed unpremeditated murder as a subconscious call for help to be more plausible.
At the end of the day, in some way or other, all murder, whether premeditated or not, reflects a certain level of mental instability and inability to deal with a situation, and can be cued as a call for help.

But not every murderer gets this level of excuses and kid glove treatment.
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Old 31.07.2019, 12:32
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Re: Waedenswil resident throws family in front of train in Germany...

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- 40yr old guy living in Waedenswil (ZH)
- no previous criminal record, but psychological issues and in therapy for the last six months.
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...the police trade union publicly stated that more cops wont be an answer to this…
... but better access to ongoing psychological treatment, poperly covered by the medical insurance, might be.
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Old 31.07.2019, 12:34
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Re: Waedenswil resident throws family in front of train in Germany...

One key "takeaway" from this murder and others of its ilk is: Always stand against the back wall when waiting for a subway train.

- Doc Memory
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Old 31.07.2019, 12:40
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Re: Waedenswil resident throws family in front of train in Germany...

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One key "takeaway" from this murder and others of its ilk is: Always stand against the back wall when waiting for a subway train.

- Doc Memory
or any train for that matter.
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Old 31.07.2019, 12:56
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Re: Waedenswil resident throws family in front of train in Germany...

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One key "takeaway" from this murder and others of its ilk is: Always stand against the back wall when waiting for a subway train.

- Doc Memory
Its literally the sort of recommendation in the news: "dont just look at your phone when waiting but keep an eye out for the other people"... paranoia anyone?

I can think of two useful suggestions:
- in some countries like Japan can you not get on the train platforms without a ticket. Wont make the sort of crime impossible, but might clean up the stations a little more than now.
- its clearly not right that dangerous criminals with open warrants can just cross a border within Schengen and the cops are clueless about it. I see the point of having national and international warrants, but if we have free movement, should the Schengen area be treated as one. Wont make anything 100% secure but adding a few thousand cops who still dont know about a guy on the run certainly wont help...
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Old 31.07.2019, 12:59
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Re: Waedenswil resident throws family in front of train in Germany...

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Its literally the sort of recommendation in the news: "dont just look at your phone when waiting but keep an eye out for the other people"... paranoia anyone?

I can think of two useful suggestions:
- in some countries like Japan can you not get on the train platforms without a ticket. Wont make the sort of crime impossible, but might clean up the stations a little more than now.
- its clearly not right that dangerous criminals with open warrants can just cross a border within Schengen and the cops are clueless about it. I see the point of having national and international warrants, but if we have free movement, should the Schengen area be treated as one. Wont make anything 100% secure but adding a few thousand cops who still dont know about a guy on the run certainly wont help...
You just defined euroscepticism.
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Old 31.07.2019, 13:05
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Re: Waedenswil resident throws family in front of train in Germany...

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In Germany is there a full on public debate with the typical bullshit. The interior minister demands more cops and cameras… how they would help a case like this is beyond me (and Frankfurt station is full of cameras already, so we dont have any lack of evidence at all).
Who said they even want to help with cases like this? But it's a useful starting point to make this debate about something else. Make Joe Punter understand, you could be next, if you insist on continuing to refuse to share your privacy with the police.
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Old 31.07.2019, 13:15
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Re: Waedenswil resident throws family in front of train in Germany...

I propose the American way : guns for everyone !

it might actually have helped in this case...
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Old 31.07.2019, 13:22
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Re: Waedenswil resident throws family in front of train in Germany...

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it might actually have helped in this case...
Pushing an unsuspecting person into an oncoming and moving train on the platform probably takes less than a second. The idea that anyone could draw a gun and shoot quick enough to stop the attack is something that belongs into action movies…
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Old 31.07.2019, 13:27
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Re: Waedenswil resident throws family in front of train in Germany...

I used to think one's freedom is defined by the access to information. With internet it moved to reining one's free time. With career race it moves to....mobility.

Amtrak has gated off the platforms and entrances. It is the last remnant of good train transport in the US but accessible to a fraction of people.

You cannot prescreen train passangers like the IPA does, either. It will push the price up, reduce the mobility. Securing mobility within one's country is far more efficient than giving the whole Shengen area up to runaway killers. I know the murder rates are declining but tell it to the lady who just scraped herself off the track.

Switzerland with its honor system of tickets and no cop presence imho flirts with the idea of no mo Shengen. I don't like the idea at all but really wonder.
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Old 31.07.2019, 13:31
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Re: Waedenswil resident throws family in front of train in Germany...

It probably hasn't made it onto here because it's not the only case of it's kind in the last few weeks unfortunately.

This is your problem...

Quote:
- no previous criminal record, but psychological issues and in therapy for the last six months.
-vs-
Quote:
- Swiss police defend the situation: an EU wide arrest warrent is only issued for dangerous criminals. As the guy had no previous track record and "only" assaulted his neighbour… well, he wasnt considered a bad enough guy.
I only know this in UK terms, sorry, but depending on the psychiatric diagnosis and how well his therapy was progressing, he may have been viewed as more of a danger to himself than anyone else. Also, whatever pschological issue he was being treated for may not have been 'sectionable' and requiring detention at a mental health facility. There's no excuse for what happened, but I'd be looking at a possible lack of foresight from his psychiatric team and the local police along the lines of, was he on meds and would being off these meds make him a danger to the public, etc.
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Old 31.07.2019, 13:43
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Re: Waedenswil resident throws family in front of train in Germany...

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its clearly not right that dangerous criminals with open warrants can just cross a border within Schengen and the cops are clueless about it. I see the point of having national and international warrants, but if we have free movement, should the Schengen area be treated as one. Wont make anything 100% secure but adding a few thousand cops who still dont know about a guy on the run certainly wont help...
Even if an Inter-Schengen warrant existed, there are no border controls.
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