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Old 16.09.2019, 10:36
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Now I got a bad rep from someone, which proves my point.
Thanks :-)
  #182  
Old 16.09.2019, 10:38
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Sandgrounder, thanks for writing an eloquent post summarizing the situation that I didn't get around to doing yet. To even compare this situation to filling up your car with petrol, as thought they are one and the same thing, is just a clear sign of lack of intelligence and common sense (though no surprise considering who wrote it). We can all chooser exactly where we put out money, and choosing not to buy chocolate Laderach is indeed a largely trivial effort on anyone's part, vs not filling their car up with the stuff required to make it actually function. Also laughable is the: "...but it happens elsewhere in the world, people have different views, get over it" spiel. It's the kind of ridiculous logic that just makes you scratch your head in wonder.

Openly anti-homosexual and anti-abortion views should always be opposed, and if this guy wants to make his views public then he should expect that there is a chance that people will take justifiable umbrage with it and not buy his products. For people to even suggest that by doing so we are intentionally penalizing his workforce is just absolute showboating, melodramatic bollocks. The workers only have their boss to blame, not the people who choose not to buy his chocolate.

If in the end this thread costs him even only a comparatively modest amount in sales I will consider it worthwhile.
Summed up. People should voice support for what is right and condemn what is wrong, but only if their definition of right and wrong is in it self correct in that it agrees with your definition.
Why, incidentally, have you singled out the themes of homosexuality, chocolate and abortion as worthy of attention and not matters such as, for example, millions of deaths and untold human misery in current Middle East wars.
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  #183  
Old 16.09.2019, 10:39
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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The workers only have their boss to blame, not the people who choose not to buy his chocolate.
Exactly the same argument used by terrorists to justify the murder of delivery drivers, police officers and anyone else who works for "the bad guy".

Nice company you keep, eh?
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  #184  
Old 16.09.2019, 10:41
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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I'm totally behind a robust public rebuttal to the expressed opinions of a figure rich and influential enough to enjoy a greater platform than most - I just think it's a bit shitty, self-serving, and - let's be blunt here - privileged to recommend that people punish his employees for having a gobshite for a boss.

I've worked for a few objectionable bosses in my time. I'm just glad that none of them was famous enough to make complete strangers want to make me lose my job over it.
It is a sad fact of life that if your company's views become unpalatable, unlike their delicious chocolate, then people might stop buying from your company. If L's views are disliked by enough consumers, then his business will go bust, or perhaps he will be forced to sell it.

It is a shame for the employees for sure, but that's the world we live in. Ideally if the pressure was enough, he'd sell or step down as CEO, thus preserving his employees' livelihoods, but you cannot blame consumers for the job losses, it is on Mr L, pure and simple.
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  #185  
Old 16.09.2019, 10:42
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Why should I be "tolerant" of people who openly oppose homosexuality? Say rape victims shouldn't be allowed abortions? Again, you just don't seem to get it. He is free to voice his opinions, and I am free to post threads like this. You do realise that the local media also wrote articles on it clearly stating that his comments have prompted outrage... right?



Tell me some more local companies where the owners think the same and I'll make threads about them too.
why limit it to local companies??
  #186  
Old 16.09.2019, 10:43
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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BTW: Abortion is all about reproductive rights of women and approximately zero of health reasons - it is enough to look at any stats regarding the reasons for it.
Seriously? Tell that to all the women who have had to terminate for health reasons, whether it be their own or the foetus.

I would consider myself generally to be pro-life but I am also pro-choice and would hate to see that choice removed from people who genuinely need it.
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  #187  
Old 16.09.2019, 10:44
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Summed up. People should voice support for what is right and condemn what is wrong, but only if their definition of right and wrong is in it self correct in that it agrees with your definition.
Why, incidentally, have you singled out the themes of homosexuality, chocolate and abortion as worthy of attention and not matters such as, for example, millions of deaths and untold human misery in current Middle East wars.
Again, questions that truly qualify as idiotic. This is the Swiss politics forum section and I am posting about a Swiss company that happened to be currently in the news and is thus relevant.

I think it's self-explanatory that no-one likes human misery in the middle east/Africa or-insert-random-humanitarian-crisis-topic-here, but it isn't going anywhere soon and we all know enough about it.
  #188  
Old 16.09.2019, 10:46
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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It is a sad fact of life that if your company's views become unpalatable, unlike their delicious chocolate, then people might stop buying from your company. If L's views are disliked by enough consumers, then his business will go bust, or perhaps he will be forced to sell it.

It is a shame for the employees for sure, but that's the world we live in. Ideally if the pressure was enough, he'd sell or step down as CEO, thus preserving his employees' livelihoods, but you cannot blame consumers for the job losses, it is on Mr L, pure and simple.
Does Läderach discriminate against gay customers or employees? Are Mr L's views enshrined in company policy? If so, you might have a point. Otherwise, they're just his personal opinions and nothing to do with his employees.
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  #189  
Old 16.09.2019, 10:47
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

funny, being anti abortion and anti gay would get you elected president of the USA, here it stops a few dogooders enjoying chocolate.
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  #190  
Old 16.09.2019, 10:52
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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here it stops a few dogooders enjoying chocolate.
I'm just cracking up at EF's original Blustering Reactionary Fart coming out as some kind of warrior for social justice. I never thought I'd see the day!
  #191  
Old 16.09.2019, 10:55
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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why limit it to local companies??
I meant local to Switzerland, obviously.

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funny, being anti abortion and anti gay would get you elected president of the USA, here it stops a few dogooders enjoying chocolate.
It doesn't stop anyone 'enjoying chocolate', Läderach is just one company within an entire industry full of delicious chocolate.
  #192  
Old 16.09.2019, 10:57
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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It doesn't stop anyone enjoying chocolate, Läderach is just one company within an entire industry full of delicious chocolate.
but its the best, so says my mrs and you don't want to argue with her
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  #193  
Old 16.09.2019, 11:00
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Does Läderach discriminate against gay customers or employees? Are Mr L's views enshrined in company policy? If so, you might have a point. Otherwise, they're just his personal opinions and nothing to do with his employees.
I don't think that matters too much - was their company policy discriminatory, it would also be abhorrent, but would be dealt with presumably by the courts, both of the land and of public opinion. What are the chances Mr L gives gay people a fair shake when it comes to promotion within the company, whether enshrined in company policy or not?

If John Nike or Tim Apple come out and say they think, I dunno, black people are inferior or gay people need to bummed straight, then you can bet there will be a public backlash, whether their employees believe it or not. We live in a time where heads of companies are public figures and thus can be a boon or liability to their company.

Incidentally, if I go about expressing dodgy opinions in public, I can be fired from my job as it brings the company into disrepute and could cause reputational damage (and therefore job losses) - why should I be held to higher scrutiny than the CEO of the company?
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  #194  
Old 16.09.2019, 11:03
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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funny, being anti abortion and anti gay would get you elected president of the USA, here it stops a few dogooders enjoying chocolate.
To be fair, Obama said his views "were evolving" which basically meant he could sit it out to see which way public opinion was swinging and then pretend to lead them there.
  #195  
Old 16.09.2019, 11:10
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Does Läderach discriminate against gay customers or employees? Are Mr L's views enshrined in company policy? If so, you might have a point. Otherwise, they're just his personal opinions and nothing to do with his employees.
It reminds me of a story a Spanish friend told me, about a little village in Spain that has two shops. During the Civil War, one shopkeeper was a Republican and the other was pro-Franco. The rest of the village was similarly split 50/50 and everybody exclusively took their business to the shop of the shopkeeper who supported their views. So basically they based their choice on political affiliation. To this, day, with both shops probably now being run by the grandchildren of the people who ran them back then, half the village refuses to buy in one shop with the other half refusing to buy in the other. And this even though nobody actually discusses politics but it's just a thing people know. To the point that newcomers who settled in the village and didn't know the history have been looked on angrily by their neighbours for frequenting both shops and looking for the cheapest deals.
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  #196  
Old 16.09.2019, 11:12
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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The guy is religious, so what?? lot of religions / religious people have the same views, ffs a large part of the USA hold exactly the same views, better all stop filling your cars with fuel from the middle east too.

He has different views to you, get over it.
Not directed at you specifically but it's not his personal views that people have a problem with - if he kept them to himself.

The fact is he's an active campaigner for some organisations with some pretty abhorrent views. The reason that these organisations exist is to spread this message, get others to join in and increase membership - ultimately, to get policy and law changed at a federal level.

He's some of the stuff he's into:

He's a leading light and he may actually be in charge of 'Christians for True' or at least the Swiss wing of this organisation.

Here's the kind of articles they print online:

Historian David Irving Explains How Jews Themselves Are Responsible For Ending Up In Auschwitz

and:

Why Is There An Uptick In Antisemitic ‘Hate Crimes’ Every Year On The Anniversary of 9-11?.

Quote from that:

Quote:
The average Jew in America should be very concerned that powerful Jewish oligarchs are pulling off colossal crimes like 9-11 to promote their Zionist agenda, allegedly for the benefit of Jews worldwide
and:

South African Blacks Mistake Israeli Tourist For A White Woman And Brutally Gang Rape Her.

He's not just 'a bit religious'.
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  #197  
Old 16.09.2019, 11:20
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Not directed at you specifically but it's not his personal views that people have a problem with - if he kept them to himself.
I can see the logic of the view that a CEO should not publically discuss matters that are not related to business.

I can even extend that view to sports people, musicians, fashion icons and the like, who may fancy themsleves as beacons on all sorts of wisdom on matters they probably don't know more about than the rest of us.

But then, why don't we apply that demand across the board. It's very nice that people like Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are activist philanthropists. But what about the old adage of doing good and keeping quiet about it?
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  #198  
Old 16.09.2019, 11:25
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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I can see the logic of the view that a CEO should not publically discuss matters that are not related to business.
Oh, dear, I wasn't sure how to say it in a simpler way...

It's not a question of publically discussing - it's the active campaigning that people have a problem with.
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  #199  
Old 16.09.2019, 11:27
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Oh, dear, I wasn't sure how to say it in a simpler way...

It's not a question of publically discussing - it's the active campaigning that people have a problem with.
Yes, I understood. I was just trying to formulate it in the most neutral way possible.

But I guess if you tiptoe to not upset one person on this thread you upset somebody else instead
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Old 16.09.2019, 11:37
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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...I find the comparisons with "well, if you're not buying chocolate at Läderach, you certainly shouldn't be refuelling your car with petrol from [insert country with questionable attitudes towards whatever punchbag-group(s) fires them up]" frankly a bit stupid and predictable. We had endless whataboutery from Loz in the past,...
Whataboutery is just a particular type of red herring - asked in order to deflect - and is a logical fallacy. In this case, however, I think it is legitimate to ask:

"You boycott Läderach because of the owners views; why do you not boycott fuel?".

I can think of some reasonable and consistent answers to that, but can the OP? If not, then it is just virtue signalling.
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