Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news  
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #261  
Old 17.09.2019, 13:19
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Quote:
View Post
One thing this thread highlights, as if it needed any highlighting, is that you cannot or should not express a point of view in the moral and ethical domain and expect everyone to agree with you. There are no (currently) universally accepted or absolute standards in this area so there is ample scope for various points of view.

Take a trip into the mundane every day with the example of buying curtains. You hand over a set of dimensions and the curtains are made to those dimensions. If they don't fit you can check your rule. You can compare it with that of the draper. If there is disagreement between the rules you can go all the way to the Louvre in France where the official standard meter rule is kept. [in the meantime the meter has been redefined but plus or minus a pair of neutron widths, that should be accurate enough]. Anyway, the point is it will always be clear.

In the realm of ethics and morality, there are no such universally accepted standards of what is right and what is wrong, so there is scope for endless discussion.
- What my religion teaches; what the law in a particular legal jurisdiction says; what feels right or is "fair"; what appears to be consistent with or an extension of other accepted principles; etc. etc.

This is just a feature of the flux (progression and/or decay) in our society. If there were absolute and visible standards in this area, is would be so much easier. Lets say that a particular course of action led to a thunderbolt from heaven striking the transgressor or shower of fire and moulten sulphur turning him/her to a pillar of salt, it would be clear. That does not happen, at least not so visibly.

Returning to the flux in society, an action or a lifestyle choice which is acceptable in a particular society (or even a snapshot in time in that society) may be unacceptable outside those narrow confines. Even those standards enshrined in law can change (even retroactively as in the example case of the Nuremberg trials). The lowest common denominator will be the survival of the family unit and every viable society will strive to protect that. The rate of change in society is increasing so that a mere generation may see many changes in its lifetime.

The prerequisites for a massive change in our society are piling up before our eyes. A potential war in the middle east is brewing which could spiral out of control, the USA's struggle to contain China and Russia could simultaneously erupt. Who knows what could result from that? But many of the things that our society now takes for granted or has been tolerated may not in the future.
Mate, I just want some chocolate not made by a knut.
  #262  
Old 17.09.2019, 13:32
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 8,089
Groaned at 485 Times in 404 Posts
Thanked 14,715 Times in 5,780 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

The following 4 users would like to thank bigblue2 for this useful post:
  #263  
Old 17.09.2019, 13:46
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored²
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,314
Groaned at 395 Times in 271 Posts
Thanked 20,032 Times in 10,427 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Quote:
View Post
One thing this thread highlights, as if it needed any highlighting, is that you cannot or should not express a point of view in the moral and ethical domain and expect everyone to agree with you. There are no (currently) universally accepted or absolute standards in this area so there is ample scope for various points of view.

Take a trip into the mundane every day with the example of buying curtains. You hand over a set of dimensions and the curtains are made to those dimensions. If they don't fit you can check your rule. You can compare it with that of the draper. If there is disagreement between the rules you can go all the way to the Louvre in France where the official standard meter rule is kept. [in the meantime the meter has been redefined but plus or minus a pair of neutron widths, that should be accurate enough]. Anyway, the point is it will always be clear.

In the realm of ethics and morality, there are no such universally accepted standards of what is right and what is wrong, so there is scope for endless discussion.
- What my religion teaches; what the law in a particular legal jurisdiction says; what feels right or is "fair"; what appears to be consistent with or an extension of other accepted principles; etc. etc.

This is just a feature of the flux (progression and/or decay) in our society. If there were absolute and visible standards in this area, is would be so much easier. Lets say that a particular course of action led to a thunderbolt from heaven striking the transgressor or shower of fire and moulten sulphur turning him/her to a pillar of salt, it would be clear. That does not happen, at least not so visibly.

Returning to the flux in society, an action or a lifestyle choice which is acceptable in a particular society (or even a snapshot in time in that society) may be unacceptable outside those narrow confines. Even those standards enshrined in law can change (even retroactively as in the example case of the Nuremberg trials). The lowest common denominator will be the survival of the family unit and every viable society will strive to protect that. The rate of change in society is increasing so that a mere generation may see many changes in its lifetime.

The prerequisites for a massive change in our society are piling up before our eyes. A potential war in the middle east is brewing which could spiral out of control, the USA's struggle to contain China and Russia could simultaneously erupt. Who knows what could result from that? But many of the things that our society now takes for granted or has been tolerated may not in the future.
I get what you wrote. Yet don't see it as apocalyptic, tbh. People can think what they want and support what they consider important to them - be it boycotting expensive cars and expensive chocolate, if they think it is going to change something. But what I disagree with is to assume that everyone will agree with their reasoning. They will not and are free to express it here.

I think Laderach is a private company and the chair of it has his right to take the risk with his statements. He is a big boy, knows what he is doing. He also hasn't asked us for an opinion, nor does he assume anything about his clients' political views nor their level of in/tolerance. If we exclude ourselves from his group of targetted clients, well. Tough titty. It is presumptious to think that he even wanted us as his customers, at the 1st place.

I think as much as he has the right to risk the future of his company, we have the right to voice opinions here, positive or negative. Shaming anyone for opinions or mocking them is not the contructive way to change them. I totally think that society's view on gay couples will not be helped by a few people not buying a boutique chocolate, I find it virtue signalling and naieve - but also very optimistic, that part I like. Real acts matter, real knowledge, real sacrifice. Chocolate?

I really like their black chocolate with roasted almonds, it still tastes the same to me, even after the facts about Laderach political stuff got out. You know why? Because I haven't got the chance to talk to their guy, don't know why he said what he said. I only got the info via rumour and media I don't trust so much. The media motivation might be entirely different than we think.

Otherwise - your relativizing...Is probably true to some extent. But people never had exact manuals on what school of thought they have to follow. On one hand people want to be free, liberal and tolerant, on another hand they want to achieve it by another rigid set of normative and restrictive rules. That is what PC culture is about.

The fact that a business owner took this risk to sincerely share his dated views...at least brings the issue to attention. Makes people think. It is not a catastrophy.
__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein
The following 2 users would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #264  
Old 17.09.2019, 13:53
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 15,791
Groaned at 523 Times in 415 Posts
Thanked 23,298 Times in 9,415 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Quote:
View Post
The fact that a business owner took this risk to sincerely share his dated views...at least brings the issue to attention. Makes people think. It is not a catastrophy.
Some of the views of at least one organisation to which he belongs are actually illegal if made public in neighbouring European countries.

It's a bit more serious than 'dated views.'
  #265  
Old 17.09.2019, 13:54
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Quote:
View Post
But people never had exact manuals on what school of thought they have to follow. On one hand people want to be free, liberal and tolerant, on another hand they want to achieve it by another rigid set of normative and restrictive rules. That is what PC culture is about.
I guess "PC culture" is different things to different people. After all, it's short for "politically correct" so if one person's politics is different to another's, their view of "correct" can vary from others. "PC" is a bit of a dead term, in my opinion. Usually used as a verbal tool by tabloid squealers to beat anyone up who one doesn't agree with.

For a rule of thumb, it could just have an over-reaching definition of "don't be a twat about other people, and don't assume one person is any better than another based on stuff they can't change (colour, sex, nationality, sexual orientation, etc.)". None of that even needs to be left or right wing politics. Easy.
The following 6 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #266  
Old 17.09.2019, 14:45
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 13,273
Groaned at 216 Times in 191 Posts
Thanked 19,362 Times in 7,881 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Quote:
View Post
Zzzzzzzzzz you forgot the "Autobahn" ,and the bad American copied it and called "I"
I think you missed the point of my post.
  #267  
Old 17.09.2019, 15:41
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SG
Posts: 8,978
Groaned at 472 Times in 353 Posts
Thanked 11,955 Times in 6,212 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Quote:
View Post
Zzzzzzzzzz you forgot the "Autobahn"
That's a myth.
Subject to your definition the first stretch was opened to the public no later than 1932 with the connection between Köln and Bonn (two lanes in each direction, separated ways, for-pay).
Earlier candidates include Milano-Varese, which was opened in 1921 (one lane per direction, for-pay).
  #268  
Old 17.09.2019, 15:54
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 10,732
Groaned at 346 Times in 282 Posts
Thanked 15,640 Times in 8,014 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Quote:
I guess "PC culture" is different things to different people. After all, it's short for "politically correct" so if one person's politics is different to another's, their view of "correct" can vary from others. "PC" is a bit of a dead term, in my opinion. Usually used as a verbal tool by tabloid squealers to beat anyone up who one doesn't agree with.

For a rule of thumb, it could just have an over-reaching definition of "don't be a twat about other people, and don't assume one person is any better than another based on stuff they can't change (colour, sex, nationality, sexual orientation, etc.)". None of that even needs to be left or right wing politics. Easy.
I really don't like the exaggerations, but if this "PC culture" gives everyone the dignity that some people think only they deserve, so be it.

What I agree with, though, is this


Quote:
View Post
even after the facts about Laderach political stuff got out. You know why? Because I haven't got the chance to talk to their guy, don't know why he said what he said. I only got the info via rumour and media I don't trust so much. The media motivation might be entirely different than we think.
.
This user would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #269  
Old 17.09.2019, 16:06
Ouchboy's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Baden
Posts: 3,289
Groaned at 48 Times in 43 Posts
Thanked 5,530 Times in 2,118 Posts
Ouchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Quote:
View Post
I really don't like the exaggerations, but if this "PC culture" gives everyone the dignity that some people think only they deserve, so be it.

What I agree with, though, is this


I already pictured you chewing on soylent green whie staring at charlton heston as they drag him away.
This user would like to thank Ouchboy for this useful post:
  #270  
Old 17.09.2019, 16:18
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 10,732
Groaned at 346 Times in 282 Posts
Thanked 15,640 Times in 8,014 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Quote:
View Post
I already pictured you chewing on soylent green whie staring at charlton heston as they drag him away.
I suppose I should feel honoured you picture me...at all?
  #271  
Old 17.09.2019, 17:39
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SG
Posts: 8,978
Groaned at 472 Times in 353 Posts
Thanked 11,955 Times in 6,212 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Quote:
View Post
Indeed. When confronted with such things as intolerance, one should show zero tolerance.
Tolerance isn't "carry on, I like what you're doing". While people have the right to use that approach it's not how democracy and freedom of thought work. Tolerance is "carry on even though I don't like it, and I'll defend your right to do so whenever necessary".
Quote:
So just for the sake of balance, where are the red lines for those people on the thread that are piling on with the "virtue signalling" label and similar sentiments?

What would make you do a sharp intake of breath, and say "Well, that's a bit much! I'm not spending my money THERE!"

Or is it just all an open playing field?
I think it's very fine to, effectively, force multinationals to apply fundamental domestic laws and regulations abroad, especially if you act to protect the powerless. Like, a call for a boycot due to child labor or sweatshops thousands of km away. One justification is the levelling of the playing field because of the inherent imbalance of power between the multinational and the workers abroad. Another is, there's usually no arbitrary assumption of a moral position because that is already embodied in the domestic law; you're more of an agent rather than a judge.

It's noble to make sure low-income producers get a fairer share of what you pay, e.g. by buying Max Havelaar products. Without waving the Havelaar coffee bags around, mind, such would result in an immediate and lasting eff-off for unbearable moral posturing.

Now, as for Läderach, I think attacking or boycotting him or his company is on a completely different level as he's acting completely legally and (presumably) without abusing anybody. He's using his political rights in an environment with reasonably strong counterparties. Also see "tolerance is ..." above.

But more importantly there's a fundamental difference between oneself acting out one's opinion (you simply stop buying from them) and calling everybody to do likewise. The former expresses and acts out an opinion, which is perfectly fine, while the latter is a judgement with the caller as the selfappointed morality judge.

That's hypocrisy (stones and glasshouses) combined with hybris (you can't appoint yourself nor is there such a position in the first place). Hence I think there's a lot of moral posturing in this thread.

There's no Läderach nearby so the question doesn't really pose itself. But if I had bought from them, it would probably be a matter of how much I prefer their products over other's. I wouldn't really like indirectly supporting his position but it wouldn't be a complete stopper either.
The following 6 users would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #272  
Old 17.09.2019, 19:38
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 15,791
Groaned at 523 Times in 415 Posts
Thanked 23,298 Times in 9,415 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Quote:
View Post

But more importantly there's a fundamental difference between oneself acting out one's opinion (you simply stop buying from them) and calling everybody to do likewise. The former expresses and acts out an opinion, which is perfectly fine, while the latter is a judgement with the caller as the selfappointed morality judge.
You are going to have to explain to me how organising an anti-abortion march is not for the purpose of getting other people to join your crusade - with the intention, in the end, of banning all abortion - for women made pregnant by gang rape, for example?

Why do you feel it is okay to organise such a march but asking people not to support his enterprise is so wrong?

Sorry but I can't see how you think one is okay but the other isn't.
The following 2 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #273  
Old 17.09.2019, 19:59
Caleb's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,101
Groaned at 14 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 1,955 Times in 766 Posts
Caleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Quote:
View Post
But more importantly there's a fundamental difference between oneself acting out one's opinion (you simply stop buying from them) and calling everybody to do likewise.
Couldn't agree more. But who in this thread is rallying for a boycott against Läderach?

Quote:
View Post
That's hypocrisy (stones and glasshouses) combined with hybris (you can't appoint yourself nor is there such a position in the first place). Hence I think there's a lot of moral posturing in this thread.
Then again, nobody here is calling on other people to follow them on their convictions. Except for Mr. Läderach's group, which is in its legal right to do. As much as me and perhaps others are in our rights to choose which companies we're happy to be customers of.
The following 5 users would like to thank Caleb for this useful post:
  #274  
Old 18.09.2019, 06:59
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 13,271
Groaned at 1,189 Times in 788 Posts
Thanked 19,166 Times in 7,429 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Quote:
View Post
You are going to have to explain to me how organising an anti-abortion march is not for the purpose of getting other people to join your crusade - with the intention, in the end, of banning all abortion - for women made pregnant by gang rape, for example?

Why do you feel it is okay to organise such a march but asking people not to support his enterprise is so wrong?

Sorry but I can't see how you think one is okay but the other isn't.
Urs Max has an utterly bizarre and near-incomprehensible sense of logic at the best of times, so not sure there is much point engaging in an inevitably circular debate with him.

Last edited by Chuff; 18.09.2019 at 08:47.
  #275  
Old 18.09.2019, 07:03
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 10,732
Groaned at 346 Times in 282 Posts
Thanked 15,640 Times in 8,014 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Quote:
View Post
There are no (currently) universally accepted or absolute standards in this area so there is ample scope for various points of view.
Yes, there are, don't be a dick to other people. You don't need a doctorate to understand that, seriously.

The old man took a risk for him, for his company and employers while expressing those views, especially in regards with homosexuality.

Let's stop pretending we have to put up with all the BS some people throw in our way. Every action has a reaction. He should have expected that some people will try to boycott his company, and rightly so.

Now, you can't ask anyone to be (equally) outraged, that's another thing. I have some other stuff to do that are higher on my list than boycotts or virtue-signalling hunting.

Quote:
View Post
I get what you wrote. Yet don't see it as apocalyptic, tbh. People can think what they want and support what they consider important to them - be it boycotting expensive cars and expensive chocolate, if they think it is going to change something. But what I disagree with is to assume that everyone will agree with their reasoning. They will not and are free to express it here.
.
Of course people can think what they want, and even say what they want in certain circumstance. As a public figure you're likely to put yourself under a spotlight and that is not always working in your favour, neither as a reputation thinggy nor from a legal point of view. Sure, you're free to take every risk you want. But then expect there will be some consequences and don't ask people to stop reacting ....if you took that liberty, don't deny it to others.

Last edited by greenmount; 18.09.2019 at 07:36.
This user would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #276  
Old 18.09.2019, 07:53
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 1,457
Groaned at 114 Times in 74 Posts
Thanked 1,587 Times in 898 Posts
yacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Quote:
View Post
You are going to have to explain to me how organising an anti-abortion march is not for the purpose of getting other people to join your crusade - with the intention, in the end, of banning all abortion - for women made pregnant by gang rape, for example?

Why do you feel it is okay to organise such a march but asking people not to support his enterprise is so wrong?

Sorry but I can't see how you think one is okay but the other isn't.
In UK approx. 98% of abortions are elective. The "ground C" is a code word for it.
Do you think it is okay to "terminate" yearly 1/4 of all pregnancies?

Example England and Wales gov't data:
https://assets.publishing.service.go...s_2018__1_.pdf

Quote:
Statutory grounds for abortion[...]
In 2018, 97.7% of abortions (196,083) were performed under ground C. A further
1.6% were carried out under ground E (3,269 abortions) with 0.6% (1,104
abortions) under ground D. Grounds A and B together accounted for very few
abortions (145). The remaining 7 cases were performed under grounds F or G.
Ground C abortions have consistently accounted for 97% or more of abortions
over the last 10 years. (Table 3a.ii).
The vast majority (99.9%) of abortions carried out under ground C alone were
reported as being performed because of a risk to the woman’s mental health.
These were classified as F99 (mental disorder, not otherwise specified) under the International Classification of Disease version 10 (ICD-10) and therefore no further breakdown is possible within the report.
The main medical diagnoses for abortions performed under ground C alone which were not due to mental health or missing (176) were those performed because of complications of pregnancy
Would be interesting to learn the actual rape/incest abortion related stats.
  #277  
Old 18.09.2019, 08:05
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Quote:
View Post
Do you think it is okay to "terminate" yearly 1/4 of all pregnancies?

.
Do you think it is okay to force a woman to undergo the painful and often dangerous process of giving birth against her will?
The following 5 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #278  
Old 18.09.2019, 08:21
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Quote:
Do you think it is okay to force a woman to undergo the painful and often dangerous process of giving birth against her will?
I wonder how he would feel if other people were allowed to make medical decisions for him and his body for a 9 month stretch, every now and again?
The following 4 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #279  
Old 18.09.2019, 08:29
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 10,732
Groaned at 346 Times in 282 Posts
Thanked 15,640 Times in 8,014 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Quote:
View Post
In UK approx. 98% of abortions are elective. The "ground C" is a code word for it.
Do you think it is okay to "terminate" yearly 1/4 of all pregnancies?
It doesn't matter the place, I think women are better served when contraceptives are easily available and accessible (if not free in some cases) and there're enough funds invested in education and prevention. The ban on abortions is usually affecting the people who are among the most vulnerable ones - girls who didn't finish their education, poor women/girls with limited access to medical care, women who are suffering from various illnesses (especially mental ones), women who suffer from domestic abuse, I can go on and on. Seriously, that is not an easy decision, yacek. I am a pro-life in general but against a ban that will affect the most vulnerable people anyway. Give them the dignity to at least decide over this thing - their bodies.
The following 3 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #280  
Old 18.09.2019, 08:31
Belgianmum's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Neuchâtel
Posts: 13,059
Groaned at 229 Times in 193 Posts
Thanked 21,570 Times in 8,836 Posts
Belgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Quote:
View Post
Do you think it is okay to "terminate" yearly 1/4 of all pregnancies?
Where does it say that 25% of pregnancies are terminated?
The following 2 users would like to thank Belgianmum for this useful post:
Closed Thread

Tags
chocolate, laderach, lindt, sprungli




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Anti female or anti English Toontoon Daily life 129 23.02.2015 10:36
Anti Bark Collar and other anti bark tips... MaybeeSkint Pet corner 24 30.07.2014 15:07
Anti Anti Thread Confloozed Complaints corner 54 01.02.2012 12:22
[Internet] FREE Anti Virus by Microsoft sagarbm21 General off-topic 21 01.10.2009 15:42
Managed anti-spam and anti-virus service for individual domain-owners spamchek Commercial 0 13.05.2005 11:22


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 17:39.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0