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Old 20.01.2020, 20:25
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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I had the same thoughts..one's offensiveness is presented as noble freedom fighting while other's is dissed as hate spreading. It would amuse if it wasn't so repetitive.
Eh?
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  #782  
Old 20.01.2020, 20:27
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Actually - another question. Is there essentially any difference between a boomer gammon and millennial snowflake? Asking for friend.
I think they're both terms that tend to be bandied about by the same type of person. IMO. Obvs.
  #783  
Old 20.01.2020, 20:38
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Anyone know what gay politician Michael Frauchiger thinks about Läderach. https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/opinion...ghts-/45493894
While I agree with Michael Frauchiger on this - Läderach was not mentioned in your link.
So unless I missed something, this post of you was fake news. Or wrongly worded.

I'm impressed how you all know exactly what's right or wrong for you. While I fully support the law on abortion - because I deeply believe in freedom of choice and opinion - I have still not made up my mind about this for me personally. I solved the problem by making sure I never had to face this decision.
That was 99% contraception and 1% luck.

I understand people who are deeply against abortion, even though I don't share their clear stand. They have a right to feel that way.
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Old 20.01.2020, 20:39
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Here is Daniel Regli. He is an SVP politician from whom even some of his SVP colleagues have distanced themselves, president of the so-called Family Lobby, and an associate of the Läderachs, who organises the anti-abortion protests (co-funded by Läderach) and believes that even a woman who conceived through rape has a duty to carry the God-given child to full term and give birth. And that all women who abort suffer from post-abortion trauma.

Here he is speaking (in German) about how homosexuality is a moral deficit.
https://youtu.be/gy0dXtM6YQA

Amongst other things he equates homosexuality to theft and promiscuity and lack of self-control. He says that one can learn to improve one's moral behaviour and thereby to stop homosexual impulses, as many, many people (he claims here) have successfully done.

I once asked him whether he could perhaps put me in touch with some such persons, so I could ask them how they had done that. But he could not. He knew only one, but couldn't enable a connection.

Instead, he sold me a copy of that man's brief autobiography. In short, the man had been on drugs and funded his addiction with male-to-male prostitution, then he got clean of drugs, and joined a church and there met a sweet woman and married her. Nothing in the tale quite persuaded me, most especially the seeming absence of any really convincing dynamic between the renewed man and his wife.

Somehow the interaction reminded me of Ted Haggard.

Thank you, Chuff, for bringing the Läderach connection to light.

Last edited by doropfiz; 20.01.2020 at 20:54.
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  #785  
Old 20.01.2020, 20:41
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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As to a person spouting their own brand of crazy, isn't that just the other side of the coin? Does he feel that the world has gone mad and he wants to return it to whatever ideal he feels existed in the past? .
The problem is that the past was pretty unsavoury.

The Läderach family also fund the Kwasizabantu mission based in St. Gallen who allegedly worked in the past with South Africa's apartheid government's secret service, used virginity tests on members and took part in beatings.
The Swiss part of this mission is now separate from the African one.

Some info here and here

Some of this stuff may be a bit out of date but there is some pretty dubious stuff going on here including black market workers from Romania working in Switzerland on Kwasizabantti construction sites but under the pretext of training in Läderach's company in Ennenda GL.
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Old 20.01.2020, 20:55
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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I support him not buying anal beads and KY jelly from MagicX.
Where do you buy them?

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  #787  
Old 20.01.2020, 20:59
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Here is Daniel Regli. He is an SVP politician from whom even some of his SVP colleagues have distanced themselves, president of the so-called Family Lobby, and an associate of the Läderachs, who organises the anti-abortion protests (co-funded by Läderach) and believes that even a woman who conceived through rape has a duty to carry the God-given child to full term and give birth. And that all women who abort suffer from post-abortion trauma.
What a vile human he appears to be. But them I'm firmly in the "unless you have a uterus you don't get to decide" viewpoint.

He should try pushing a satsuma up his dumbstick and then revisit.
  #788  
Old 20.01.2020, 21:03
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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The problem is that the past was pretty unsavoury.

The Läderach family also fund the Kwasizabantu mission based in St. Gallen who allegedly worked in the past with South Africa's apartheid government's secret service, used virginity tests on members and took part in beatings.
The Swiss part of this mission is now separate from the African one.

Some info here and here

Some of this stuff may be a bit out of date but there is some pretty dubious stuff going on here including black market workers from Romania working in Switzerland on Kwasizabantti construction sites but under the pretext of training in Läderach's company in Ennenda GL.
They practically own a chocolate factory there (Heidi - excellent chocolate btw) so it's hard to prove they did something illegal. I don't know anything about the South-African connection though.
  #789  
Old 20.01.2020, 21:03
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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He should try pushing a satsuma up his dumbstick and then revisit.
Well, we cannot know what he has already tried, but watching him does make one wonder.
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Old 20.01.2020, 21:06
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Here's a view explaining why at least many GLBTIAQ people (and many hetero people) think that there should be a law against discrimination.
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/opinion...-gap-/45493900
Sadly, such discrimination is real, and it ought not to be okay, in any shape or form, to diminish anyone, or their rights, on account of their sexual orientation.
  #791  
Old 20.01.2020, 21:21
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Here's a view explaining why at least many GLBTIAQ people (and many hetero people) think that there should be a law against discrimination.
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/opinion...-gap-/45493900
Sadly, such discrimination is real, and it ought not to be okay, in any shape or form, to diminish anyone, or their rights, on account of their sexual orientation.
The point is it ought not to be okay, in any shape or form, to diminish anyone, or their rights.
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  #792  
Old 20.01.2020, 21:25
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Here is Daniel Regli. He is an SVP politician from whom even some of his SVP colleagues have distanced themselves, president of the so-called Family Lobby, and an associate of the Läderachs, who organises the anti-abortion protests (co-funded by Läderach) and believes that even a woman who conceived through rape has a duty to carry the God-given child to full term and give birth. And that all women who abort suffer from post-abortion trauma.

Here he is speaking (in German) about how homosexuality is a moral deficit.
https://youtu.be/gy0dXtM6YQA

Amongst other things he equates homosexuality to theft and promiscuity and lack of self-control. He says that one can learn to improve one's moral behaviour and thereby to stop homosexual impulses, as many, many people (he claims here) have successfully done.

I once asked him whether he could perhaps put me in touch with some such persons, so I could ask them how they had done that. But he could not. He knew only one, but couldn't enable a connection.

Instead, he sold me a copy of that man's brief autobiography. In short, the man had been on drugs and funded his addiction with male-to-male prostitution, then he got clean of drugs, and joined a church and there met a sweet woman and married her. Nothing in the tale quite persuaded me, most especially the seeming absence of any really convincing dynamic between the renewed man and his wife.

Somehow the interaction reminded me of Ted Haggard.

Thank you, Chuff, for bringing the Läderach connection to light.
You mean you know or got to know him personally?
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Old 20.01.2020, 21:41
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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They practically own a chocolate factory there (Heidi - excellent chocolate btw) so it's hard to prove they did something illegal. I don't know anything about the South-African connection though.
From what I understand, the money made there is meant to benefit the people who work there (the "Christian aspect") but it appears to have been mostly funneled back into Switzerland to fill the coffers of the sect.
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  #794  
Old 20.01.2020, 21:50
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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You mean you know or got to know him personally?
I wouldn't say I know him, but yes, I asked him for an appointment and he agreed to see me.

I did so after having listened to several of my gay friends explain the various ways in which they had suffered discrimination, including, but not only, in Christian churches and families.

One man said: "Really, for myself, and with my partner, I'm completely fine being gay. But the uphill slog over years and years of dealing with the put-downs and sniggers and snide remarks, and not getting the promotion, and not being included in an invitation, on and on, in so many contexts! And then being told in church that they they're bound to love the sinner while hating the sin, and all that pray-away-the-gay stuff. So while we're completely fine being gay, now, if there had been really way to magic me into a straight guy, earlier, I might have taken it, just to be rid of all the nonsense people dish out."

So since Daniel Regli claims there is (and I have yet to meet a believable ex-gay), I went to ask him.

Last edited by doropfiz; 20.01.2020 at 22:14.
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Old 20.01.2020, 22:08
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Where do you buy them?

Tom
MagicX, it was literally in my post, dude.

Not really, online is much cheaper, innit.
  #796  
Old 21.01.2020, 06:40
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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From what I understand, the money made there is meant to benefit the people who work there (the "Christian aspect") but it appears to have been mostly funneled back into Switzerland to fill the coffers of the sect.
Never read of any such a scandal tbh, and trust me our press is also one of the most miserable, scandal looking concoction. Think of UK tabloids... Whatever they did, they did it....legally.
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Old 21.01.2020, 07:17
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

I did read an interesting SF short story recently. Technology develops a way of preventing anything nasty getting to the baby in the womb, including stress hormones. In the story (don't know about real-life; this could have been the state of theory at the time it was written - 1990s) propensity to homosexuality was determined by the levels of stress hormone received from the mum. Therefore, anyone choosing this technology could vastly lower the chances of having a gay child.

The protagonist is a gay man who thinks homosexuals need no special protection and that gay pride is an anachronism given the rights already won. His partner has the opposite view.

It does raise an interesting question. If there was a cheap womb treatment that almost guaranteed your children would be straight, would that mean effectively the elimination of homosexuals from society. Is society really as liberal as we think
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Old 21.01.2020, 07:23
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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I did read an interesting SF short story recently. Technology develops a way of preventing anything nasty getting to the baby in the womb, including stress hormones. In the story (don't know about real-life; this could have been the state of theory at the time it was written - 1990s) propensity to homosexuality was determined by the levels of stress hormone received from the mum. Therefore, anyone choosing this technology could vastly lower the chances of having a gay child.

The protagonist is a gay man who thinks homosexuals need no special protection and that gay pride is an anachronism given the rights already won. His partner has the opposite view.

It does raise an interesting question. If there was a cheap womb treatment that almost guaranteed your children would be straight, would that mean effectively the elimination of homosexuals from society. Is society really as liberal as we think
An interesting concept - but one that was kind of put into practice in China (and other places), but in a different way.

When China was still running the one child policy stringently, it was quite common for people to abort (illegally, I believe) foetuses when they found it was a girl. A male child was certainly more desirable to many people. During the period, there were 16% more boys than girls born/kept. Liechtenstein had 26% more boys than girls

Girls weren't eliminated from society

People who cared might prevent their child from being gay, people who didn't, wouldn't.
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Old 21.01.2020, 07:54
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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An interesting concept - but one that was kind of put into practice in China (and other places), but in a different way.

When China was still running the one child policy stringently, it was quite common for people to abort (illegally, I believe) foetuses when they found it was a girl. A male child was certainly more desirable to many people. During the period, there were 16% more boys than girls born/kept. Liechtenstein had 26% more boys than girls

Girls weren't eliminated from society
Well, the sex ratio imbalance in China is a demographic problem, but I'm not convinced the comparison is valid. The difference is between selective abortion and infanticide, which have moral issues of their own, and a medical procedure that protects the baby from all kinds of things. The stress hormone thing is presented as an unexpected side effect. But anyway, it's fiction, and I'm certainly not sure about the science of it!

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People who cared might prevent their child from being gay, people who didn't, wouldn't.
That really is the nub of the question. How many people would care?
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Old 21.01.2020, 08:24
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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I wouldn't say I know him, but yes, I asked him for an appointment and he agreed to see me.

I did so after having listened to several of my gay friends explain the various ways in which they had suffered discrimination, including, but not only, in Christian churches and families.

One man said: "Really, for myself, and with my partner, I'm completely fine being gay. But the uphill slog over years and years of dealing with the put-downs and sniggers and snide remarks, and not getting the promotion, and not being included in an invitation, on and on, in so many contexts! And then being told in church that they they're bound to love the sinner while hating the sin, and all that pray-away-the-gay stuff. So while we're completely fine being gay, now, if there had been really way to magic me into a straight guy, earlier, I might have taken it, just to be rid of all the nonsense people dish out."

So since Daniel Regli claims there is (and I have yet to meet a believable ex-gay), I went to ask him.
That was a very bold move but sadly, most probably - futile. I am really sorry for your friends. I think they might have looked for appreciation and inclusion in the wrong places. It's not like certain type of people (religious or not) are ever gonna change their world views.
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