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Old 21.01.2020, 14:18
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

So basically according to this thread, it's ok to buy products from a company whose owner has the same beliefs as me, but not ok to support one whose beliefs are not the same as mine!

Mr. L is entitled to his beliefs. He earns money producing chocolate it's up to him what he spends that money on. His beliefs are irrelevant to the product he produces.

Mr M. believes in same-sex marriage and everything opposite to Mr. L. He also produces chocolate. Also up to him what he spends his money on and he is a member of a wildly liberal organisation. Again his beliefs are irrelevant to the product he produces.

The difference is... somehow it would be ok to buy chocolate from Mr. M but not from Mr. L.

Free speech means that Mr. L. can have his beliefs. I don't agree with them. But he is entitled to them. He can spend his earned cash how he wants. I can choose to buy or not buy his chocolate if I want. But, creating a whole vandetta against him is actually denying his right to his opinion.
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  #842  
Old 21.01.2020, 14:26
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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So basically according to this thread, it's ok to buy products from a company whose owner has the same beliefs as me, but not ok to support one whose beliefs are not the same as mine!

Mr. L is entitled to his beliefs. He earns money producing chocolate it's up to him what he spends that money on. His beliefs are irrelevant to the product he produces.

Mr M. believes in same-sex marriage and everything opposite to Mr. L. He also produces chocolate. Also up to him what he spends his money on and he is a member of a wildly liberal organisation. Again his beliefs are irrelevant to the product he produces.

The difference is... somehow it would be ok to buy chocolate from Mr. M but not from Mr. L.
Sooo, is there actually anything wrong in all that?

Aren't people are free to make up their minds how they spend their money? Consumers can be as choosy as they like in a free market.
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  #843  
Old 21.01.2020, 14:43
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Aren't people are free to make up their minds how they spend their money? Consumers can be as choosy as they like in a free market.
Absolutely! However, in the case of a boycott, you're not choosing based on the product quality, you're choosing in a way as to punish someone else for his choice. Not very liberal is it?
The fundamentalist liberals find it ok, other liberals, like myself, don't.
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  #844  
Old 21.01.2020, 14:52
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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The fundamentalist liberals find it ok, other liberals, like myself, don't.
I find this straight edge chocolate refusal not liberal at all. It shames others for not mixing politics and taste buds. The Laderach guy also seems old money so however he funds his spiritual beliefs....who knows. I haven't inspected his accounting. Nor does the chocolate taste of intolerance, it tastes like old art. The fact he is open about sharing his convictions maybe means he is open to changing them, not that he wants to change other people's ideas.

So. As you worded it, fundies vs us, liberals?
  #845  
Old 21.01.2020, 14:58
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Absolutely! However, in the case of a boycott, you're not choosing based on the product quality, you're choosing in a way as to punish someone else for his choice. Not very liberal is it?
The fundamentalist liberals find it ok, other liberals, like myself, don't.
Why does it even have to be about "liberalism". Who cares?

If you don't agree with someone about whatever it is they are doing or stand for or if they beat their dog, don't go to church, do go to church, wear speedos with a beer gut, just don't buy their shit. That crosses the political divide more than you realise.

Not sure what is tripping people up here.

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So. As you worded it, fundies vs us, liberals?
Christ on a bike.
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  #846  
Old 21.01.2020, 15:01
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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It shames others for not mixing politics and taste buds.
Obviously....not?
  #847  
Old 21.01.2020, 15:13
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Not sure what is tripping people up here.
Chocolate, obviously
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  #848  
Old 21.01.2020, 15:15
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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So basically according to this thread, it's ok to buy products from a company whose owner has the same beliefs as me, but not ok to support one whose beliefs are not the same as mine!

Mr. L is entitled to his beliefs. He earns money producing chocolate it's up to him what he spends that money on. His beliefs are irrelevant to the product he produces.

Mr M. believes in same-sex marriage and everything opposite to Mr. L. He also produces chocolate. Also up to him what he spends his money on and he is a member of a wildly liberal organisation. Again his beliefs are irrelevant to the product he produces.

The difference is... somehow it would be ok to buy chocolate from Mr. M but not from Mr. L.

Free speech means that Mr. L. can have his beliefs. I don't agree with them. But he is entitled to them. He can spend his earned cash how he wants. I can choose to buy or not buy his chocolate if I want. But, creating a whole vandetta against him is actually denying his right to his opinion.
How about two other chocolate companies (Big ones for the sake of this argument).

One uses palm oil in it's products obtained from dubious uncontrolled sources which have been shown to destroy particular rain forests where many animals including large apes are facing extinction. The source is legal, none-the-less.

The other uses locally-sourced vegetable oil instead of palm oil.

Would it be wrong for people to boycott the first company and actively campaign to stop others from buying from them, and actively support the second company?
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  #849  
Old 21.01.2020, 15:16
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Why does it even have to be about "liberalism".
Because people who are the most preaching tolerance (towards a very particular group, not towards people in this thread, mind you) show their nature as being very intolerant (shaming others for holding different views).

The hypocrisy isn't even in the hypothetically diverse definitions of "tolerance". It is in the preaching and shaming. It actually does no good for the cause, zero help (the contrary, if you ask me, my gay friends laugh at this kind of guerilla), it pushes people towards the chocolate. Because the chocolate addresses taste buds. Not human rights. Not even by proxy that some people would like to wear as a badge of honor.

Somebody asked here if anyone knows of gays changing sexual orientation. Yes. Isn't it supposed to be on a scale that people deffended here? It is ridiculous to chase after a proof, again, another question of a subjective palate, innit.

Aren't we gourmands today.

While I don't hold by far the views of Laderach owner, I kinda like the fact he sticks to his conviction. He isn't a public person, despite the fact his chocolate made it to every Swiss city. I wonder if this sweet war of his isn't strategic. Actually I know it probably is.
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  #850  
Old 21.01.2020, 15:32
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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I wonder if this sweet war of his isn't strategic. Actually I know it probably is.
What "sweet war" are you talking about?

Twix cannons and Mars Molotovs at the ready...
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  #851  
Old 21.01.2020, 15:35
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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What "sweet war" are you talking about?

Twix cannons and Mars Molotovs at the ready...
When it comes to battles like this, few twix up your sleeve could be handy.
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  #852  
Old 21.01.2020, 15:37
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Meanwhile, in LGBT friendly Texas:



https://www.star-telegram.com/news/n...239361478.html

Tom
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  #853  
Old 21.01.2020, 15:46
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Meanwhile, in LGBT friendly Texas:



https://www.star-telegram.com/news/n...239361478.html

Tom

Lol.

It looks like that's the kinda pc chocolate (I meant bland) our garden freedom fighters want.

But this one is seriously bigly. Astronomical.

I dislike Snickers. I only like Mars and Milky Way distributed free by our local astronomical society when we hang out.
  #854  
Old 21.01.2020, 15:55
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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How about two other chocolate companies (Big ones for the sake of this argument).

One uses palm oil in it's products obtained from dubious uncontrolled sources which have been shown to destroy particular rain forests where many animals including large apes are facing extinction. The source is legal, none-the-less.

The other uses locally-sourced vegetable oil instead of palm oil.

Would it be wrong for people to boycott the first company and actively campaign to stop others from buying from them, and actively support the second company?
Nice example, but this is different because this is about company policies, not about a person.

A more interesting example is: would you boycott CS because the CEO is spying on his employees, using private detectives.
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  #855  
Old 21.01.2020, 16:02
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Nice example, but this is different because this is about company policies, not about a person.

A more interesting example is: would you boycott CS because the CEO is spying on his employees, using private detectives.
I don't think that pars either. One needs a bank, some bank. You decide once. The reason to refuse CS would be safety.

One doesn't need luxurious, hand crafted and once a while chocolate. That analogy would assume we need some kind of chocolate. We do not.

Maslow.

I mean. Mazeltov.
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  #856  
Old 21.01.2020, 16:08
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Lol.

It looks like that's the kinda pc chocolate (I meant bland) our garden freedom fighters want.

.
Like freedom fighters.... gnomes ?

How poetic.

I am pretty sure nobody ever ate pc chocolate btw. Cocoa production and distribution was never pc. Palm oil or not.
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  #857  
Old 21.01.2020, 16:47
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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I am pretty sure nobody ever ate pc chocolate btw. Cocoa production and distribution was never pc. Palm oil or not.
You underestimate EF members
  #858  
Old 21.01.2020, 16:50
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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You underestimate EF members
Of course, they grow their organic cocoa themselves and price it fairly. I forgot.
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  #859  
Old 21.01.2020, 17:23
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Shaming people for buying chocolate and pushing a good Swiss company to a bunkrupcy..in the name of human rights?

Is a leap of abstraction that people just won't do. The opposite.

One can quantify it actually pretty well. I bet it raised his sales.

The campaigning is counterproductive. It pushes supporters buy more of his chocolate. People eat his chocolate to show they got freedom to snack on whatever here without being shamed.

It honestly is really good chocolate. The campaign would be more successful if he sucked if you can pardon my language.

But he's gotta do something well there in his company and it's not accidental. Let customers return from shame, guilt and whatever isn't working to decide for themselves if the chocolate is worth the price tag. His conviction is another matter and should be, imho, addressed differently.
Why do you keep alternating between your personal view and some nebulous "people's views"? Please be an honest actor when replying and reply in good faith.
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Old 21.01.2020, 17:25
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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So basically according to this thread, it's ok to buy products from a company whose owner has the same beliefs as me, but not ok to support one whose beliefs are not the same as mine!

Mr. L is entitled to his beliefs. He earns money producing chocolate it's up to him what he spends that money on. His beliefs are irrelevant to the product he produces.

Mr M. believes in same-sex marriage and everything opposite to Mr. L. He also produces chocolate. Also up to him what he spends his money on and he is a member of a wildly liberal organisation. Again his beliefs are irrelevant to the product he produces.

The difference is... somehow it would be ok to buy chocolate from Mr. M but not from Mr. L.

Free speech means that Mr. L. can have his beliefs. I don't agree with them. But he is entitled to them. He can spend his earned cash how he wants. I can choose to buy or not buy his chocolate if I want. But, creating a whole vandetta against him is actually denying his right to his opinion.
I genuinely hope you aren't a real judge, as you've just steamed in here and got it so wrong.

Let me spell it out for you;
His beliefs are irrelevant,
His actions are relevant.

Got it?

He is not being denied an opinion, he is being denied money from people who disagree with him funding dodgy (to them) organizations.

This really cannot be spelled out more clearly.
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