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  #861  
Old 21.01.2020, 17:28
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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not that he wants to change other people's ideas.
He doesn't give a toss about other people's ideas - he is attempting to change the law, not win hearts and minds.
  #862  
Old 21.01.2020, 17:40
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Why do you keep alternating between your personal view and some nebulous "people's views"? Please be an honest actor when replying and reply in good faith.
Interesting statement coming from the person who wrote this

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Nobody gives a toss how successful or otherwise he is, they just don't want to fund a nutty organization he's involved with.

I don't see how this is so tricky to grasp.
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  #863  
Old 21.01.2020, 17:43
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Interesting statement coming from the person who wrote this
Well if it helps, I am personally part of that nobody, which in context means all of the people putting forward a "liberal" viewpoint on this thread.

The difference being, as always, MC is evading a direct question by switching between different persons.

I am not saying never say "people" or always say "I", I am saying answer the question put to you. Hope this is now clear to you.
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  #864  
Old 21.01.2020, 18:01
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Well if it helps, I am personally part of that nobody, which in context means all of the people putting forward a "liberal" viewpoint on this thread.

The difference being, as always, MC is evading a direct question by switching between different persons.

I am not saying never say "people" or always say "I", I am saying answer the question put to you. Hope this is now clear to you.
I think you're part of the garden freedom fighters whom MC seems to despise so much.

Or the "fundies". It's fundies vs. liberals.
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Old 21.01.2020, 18:11
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Because people who are the most preaching tolerance (towards a very particular group, not towards people in this thread, mind you) show their nature as being very intolerant (shaming others for holding different views).

The hypocrisy isn't even in the hypothetically diverse definitions of "tolerance". It is in the preaching and shaming. It actually does no good for the cause, zero help (the contrary, if you ask me, my gay friends laugh at this kind of guerilla), it pushes people towards the chocolate. Because the chocolate addresses taste buds. Not human rights. Not even by proxy that some people would like to wear as a badge of honor.

Somebody asked here if anyone knows of gays changing sexual orientation. Yes. Isn't it supposed to be on a scale that people deffended here? It is ridiculous to chase after a proof, again, another question of a subjective palate, innit.

Aren't we gourmands today.

While I don't hold by far the views of Laderach owner, I kinda like the fact he sticks to his conviction. He isn't a public person, despite the fact his chocolate made it to every Swiss city. I wonder if this sweet war of his isn't strategic. Actually I know it probably is.

And a good deal of this is both patronising and, believe it or not, an attempt to shame.

You do talk a lot of wiffly waffle.

Liberalism is, literally, tolerance. By that definition all should be tolerated, you should work on that. Sadly, that includes your malapropism-laden attempt at Newspeak. I should work on that. Orwell is probably applauding, however.

I like Laderach choc. I like Lindt. I really like Green and Black's Maya Gold ... which sadly is owned, like so much other stuff, by Mondalez.
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  #866  
Old 21.01.2020, 19:56
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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And a good deal of this is both patronising and, believe it or not, an attempt to shame.
.
Mix in a bit of mocking and grandstanding and you'll get a bit closer to what just happened in that post you quoted and not only... But we've been there already, move along nothing to see.

Tbh I'm more amused by the predictability of these exchanges.
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  #867  
Old 21.01.2020, 21:07
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Liberalism is, literally, tolerance..
As so well exemplified in this thread by this fine example of tolerance

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I know beyond any reasonable doubt that you are a complete and utter idiot whose views generally oppose mine.
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Old 21.01.2020, 22:41
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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As so well exemplified in this thread by this fine example of tolerance
I don't even think Chuff would consider himself a classic liberal, so your point is irrelevant whataboutery.

Lots of that on here, shockingly.
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  #869  
Old 22.01.2020, 08:24
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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As so well exemplified in this thread by this fine example of tolerance
Nah, that's just Chuff.
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Old 22.01.2020, 08:26
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Because people who are the most preaching tolerance (towards a very particular group, not towards people in this thread, mind you) show their nature as being very intolerant (shaming others for holding different views).

The hypocrisy isn't even in the hypothetically diverse definitions of "tolerance". It is in the preaching and shaming. It actually does no good for the cause, zero help (the contrary, if you ask me, my gay friends laugh at this kind of guerilla), it pushes people towards the chocolate. Because the chocolate addresses taste buds. Not human rights. Not even by proxy that some people would like to wear as a badge of honor.

Somebody asked here if anyone knows of gays changing sexual orientation. Yes. Isn't it supposed to be on a scale that people deffended here? It is ridiculous to chase after a proof, again, another question of a subjective palate, innit.

Aren't we gourmands today.

While I don't hold by far the views of Laderach owner, I kinda like the fact he sticks to his conviction. He isn't a public person, despite the fact his chocolate made it to every Swiss city. I wonder if this sweet war of his isn't strategic. Actually I know it probably is.
This is a very good point, the speed at which liberalism is becoming illiberal in much of the developed world is frightening. This isn’t just about a boycott, Läderach has also been targeted by vandals and intimidation used against their employees.

If there is to be a commitment to religious liberty, and fortunately in Switzerland there is, then this means accepting that people’s views stem from their faith. This is the fundamental component of liberalism, to be able to hold one’s own views without enforcing them onto others. It is illiberal to only accept other people’s views if you agree with them, and to reject them if you don’t agree with them.
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  #871  
Old 22.01.2020, 08:37
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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It is illiberal to only accept other people’s views if you agree with them, and to reject them if you don’t agree with them.
That's just how we humans are able to function in this world. Illiberal or not. What you, perhaps, mean - is to acknowledge other people's views, to know they exist. Accepting them is a totally different thing.
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  #872  
Old 22.01.2020, 08:55
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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That's just how we humans are able to function in this world. Illiberal or not. What you, perhaps, mean - is to acknowledge other people's views, to know they exist. Accepting them is a totally different thing.
I think the entire reason that the political scene has become so caustic is that more people than before have become aware that other viewpoints besides their own exist and have difficulty accepting that .
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  #873  
Old 22.01.2020, 09:02
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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I think the entire reason that the political scene has always been so caustic is that ... people ... have always been aware that other viewpoints besides their own exist and have difficulty accepting that .
Fixed that for you.
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Old 22.01.2020, 09:18
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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This is a very good point, the speed at which liberalism is becoming illiberal in much of the developed world is frightening.
What part of the word liberalism didn't you understand? :-)
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Old 22.01.2020, 09:32
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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I think the entire reason that the political scene has become so caustic is that more people than before have become aware that other viewpoints besides their own exist and have difficulty accepting that .
Can you imagine the fuss if the internet had been around in the early 20th Century when the Suffragettes were getting stuck into securing equal rights for women?

Bloody liberals throwing themselves under traffic just to get a vote. Tsk.
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Old 22.01.2020, 09:34
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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What part of the word liberalism didn't you understand? :-)
It's almost like some people aren't aware secularism is a part of liberalism.
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Old 22.01.2020, 09:42
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Liberalism is, literally, tolerance. By that definition all should be tolerated, you should work on that.
People who claim to be liberals REALLY need to work on the tolerance bit.

Tom
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  #878  
Old 22.01.2020, 10:20
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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I am left handed and had my first couple of school years under communism. the "comrade teacher" used a wooden stick to hit me on the hand whenever I used my left hand in school.
My grandmother got that as a child. My sister was discouraged heavily from using her left hand, until my parents intervened. I've two kids who are left handed. I call them the genetic mutant freaks of our family. But I did get my son a very nice left-handed sushi knife for Christmas, so I'm quite tolerant really. Even enabling.
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There is no dichotomy or logical fallacy here.

Liberal views call for tolerance, let everyone do what they want (and here's the kicker) AS LONG AS IT DOESN'T HARM OTHER PEOPLE. (Especially Me!)
You missed a bit. I've added it in for you.

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Written like a true introvert with limited social skills...
Ah bless. Lovely liberal attitude towards introverts and those with limited social skills.
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Old 22.01.2020, 10:55
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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There is no dichotomy or logical fallacy here.

Liberal views call for tolerance, let everyone do what they want (and here's the kicker) AS LONG AS IT DOESN'T HARM OTHER PEOPLE. (Especially Me!)
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You missed a bit. I've added it in for you.
More whataboutery. I am neither a woman nor a gay, so how is my desire for them to be treated equally and not harmed "especially me".

B-, Must try harder.
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Old 22.01.2020, 11:11
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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I think the entire reason that the political scene has become so caustic is that more people than before have become aware that other viewpoints besides their own exist and have difficulty accepting that .
I think it is more banal than that. People always were aware that other viewpoints existed. But it seems that now associate more of their self worth with people agreeing with them, even random online strangers. The inablity to disassociate an idea from whoever says the idea is primarily an affective issue. A reflex. Not cognitive.

It is not just in politics. Watch your office...a tram stop, a bar.
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