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Old 22.01.2020, 12:32
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Yes, the untold story of how Nelson Mandela stopped eating chocolate to fight apartheid.
I think he was volunteered to boycott quite a lot of luxuries during his stay on Robben Island.

I meant more the people/countries who boycotted SA produce, refused to send sports teams, musicians, etc etc.

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I would not link eating really expensive chocolate to actual sincere risk.
I know you wouldn't, dear. That would involve a modicum of thought effort.
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  #902  
Old 22.01.2020, 12:36
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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I meant more the people/countries who boycotted SA produce, refused to send sports teams, musicians, etc etc.
StirB's fight on EF on par with Nelson Mandela? What was your definition of whataboutery again?
  #903  
Old 22.01.2020, 12:40
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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I would not link eating really expensive chocolate to actual sincere risk.

Etc, etc.
But presumably you do see the value of members of society protesting things they want to change, don't you? It's not that big a stretch to make to figure it out.

I guess you are being purposely obtuse because facing up to it would give credence to the fact that, yes, things often do get changed through protest, whether you believe in it or not. If enough people have a common goal they eventually get what they want.

Look at Brexit. Look at Trump. Changes that I think are shit but presumably there were enough people that want that kind of thing to happen to them.

Just because in this case it's people avoiding paying into a business because they simply don't agree with the views of the person that owns it doesn't lessen the belief. It's even gone so far that the guy has back-peddled and tried to explain himself.
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Old 22.01.2020, 12:46
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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StirB's fight on EF on par with Nelson Mandela? What was your definition of whataboutery again?
Well, this.

Highlighting effective boycotts on a thread about boycotts is not whataboutery, is it?

Or perhaps you think homophobia is less heinous than racism?

As you were.
  #905  
Old 22.01.2020, 12:46
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Just because in this case it's people avoiding paying into a business because they simply don't agree with the views of the person that owns it doesn't lessen the belief. It's even gone so far that the guy has back-peddled and tried to explain himself.
This. It's not a bad thing he actually explained what he stands for. Vandalising is not OK, discussions are.

https://www.nau.ch/news/schweiz/lade...akten-65647395
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  #906  
Old 22.01.2020, 12:48
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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This. It's not a bad thing he actually explained what he stands for. Vandalising is not OK, discussions are.

https://www.nau.ch/news/schweiz/lade...akten-65647395
Ah, but you forget all liberals are evil hypocrites, because someone did some graffiti.
  #907  
Old 22.01.2020, 12:50
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Or perhaps you think homophobia is less heinous than racism?
I wouldn't make a call which is more heinous; both are equally heinous. I just wanted to point you in the direction that your "support" of a cause by NOT EATING chocolate makes a joke of the true efforts and suffering of people who actually made a sacrifice. Because an avatar of Assassins Creed doesn't add any credibility to your image as a equality fighter. But, as usual, on EF anything goes and people click likes along party lines.
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Old 22.01.2020, 12:59
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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I just wanted to point you in the direction that your "support" of a cause by NOT EATING chocolate makes a joke of the true efforts and suffering of people who actually made a sacrifice. Because an avatar of Assassins Creed doesn't add any credibility to your image as a equality fighter. But, as usual, on EF anything goes and people click likes along party lines.
Opinion.
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Old 22.01.2020, 13:08
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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I wouldn't make a call which is more heinous; both are equally heinous. I just wanted to point you in the direction that your "support" of a cause by NOT EATING chocolate makes a joke of the true efforts and suffering of people who actually made a sacrifice. Because an avatar of Assassins Creed doesn't add any credibility to your image as a equality fighter. But, as usual, on EF anything goes and people click likes along party lines.
So my not buying chocolate that would fund homophobia is entirely different to people not buying tomatoes that funded racism.

Wanna try again?

Also, my avatar. Wow. Scraping the barrel there chum.
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  #910  
Old 22.01.2020, 13:21
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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by NOT EATING chocolate makes a joke of the true efforts and suffering of people who actually made a sacrifice. Because an avatar of Assassins Creed doesn't add any credibility to your image as a equality fighter. But, as usual, on EF anything goes and people click likes along party lines.
It's a matter of perception, really. I take most of the posts here (well, when appropriate) as if they were part of a dialogue. I don't care if StirB or anyone else fancy themselves as whatever they like (of course, if indeed they do so), I can agree or disagree with certain posts or certain posters - when there's a pattern already.

Not eating chocolate, peanut butter, whatever. The modern way of "protesting", no? I'm (relatively) worried it might affect innocent people and their source of income, but would like to see more responsibility from some business owners. It's nothing "sinister" here, seriously. Remember: perception and projection, two very important words.

Last edited by greenmount; 22.01.2020 at 14:22. Reason: clarity
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  #911  
Old 22.01.2020, 13:28
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

how is this thread still going?????

get over yourselves, merge this thread with the first world problems thread and be done with it.
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  #912  
Old 22.01.2020, 13:36
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Not eating chocolate, peanut butter, whatever. The modern way of "protesting", no? I'm (relatively) worried it might affect innocent people and their source of income, but would like to see more responsibility from some business owners. It's nothing "sinister" here, seriously. Remember: perception and projection, two very important words.
Everything is a matter of perception and projection. The much more tricky question is whether one can see OTHER peoples perception and projections. Level 3 "master" is change your perception because you saw someone else view as more relevant. Indeed, I am most of the time extremely provocative just to trigger a certain discussion, call it entertainment, dunno. However, people get boxed in their views even more when challenged and it makes them even more unlikely to change their opinion. On the other hand, if you don't challenge peoples opinions, how do we move forward as a society to a more liberal, live and let live approach? When you don't challenge, the perception is "i must be right". If you challenge, the perception is "I'm right, he's wrong, i will now show him!" It's a genuine question I have and as expected EF provides much more entertainment and keyboard depreciation rather than an answer. But I keep tryin', liberal aint I
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Old 22.01.2020, 13:49
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Everything is a matter of perception and projection. The much more tricky question is whether one can see OTHER peoples perception and projections. Level 3 "master" is change your perception because you saw someone else view as more relevant. Indeed, I am most of the time extremely provocative just to trigger a certain discussion, call it entertainment, dunno. However, people get boxed in their views even more when challenged and it makes them even more unlikely to change their opinion. On the other hand, if you don't challenge peoples opinions, how do we move forward as a society to a more liberal, live and let live approach? When you don't challenge, the perception is "i must be right". If you challenge, the perception is "I'm right, he's wrong, i will now show him!" It's a genuine question I have and as expected EF provides much more entertainment and keyboard depreciation rather than an answer. But I keep tryin', liberal aint I
If Laderach owner would not want to be challenged, nobody would know about his ideas. By being open about his conviction he welcomed a debate.

This is the mental step that just gets ignored. It is not the people here who voice unpopular opinions that need to be challenged and who seem to be labeled as unprogressive or closeminded. They are brave to share their opinions knowing they are opening themselves, as liberal in the true sense, to be questioned. They know they can be.

Laderach has not been "called out on" anything, he openly owns his views. Agree with him or not, he is not the biggest threat to democracy, divergent cognition nor diversity.

People who go in packs and aggressively against minority opinions holders, are.
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Last edited by MusicChick; 22.01.2020 at 14:06. Reason: tp
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  #914  
Old 22.01.2020, 13:53
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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The much more tricky question is whether one can see OTHER peoples perception and projections.
Of course, I think most people do. Whether they admit it or not.

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Level 3 "master" is change your perception because you saw someone else view as more relevant.
Now that's the tricky one.

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Indeed, I am most of the time extremely provocative just to trigger a certain discussion, call it entertainment, dunno.
I figured.

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However, people get boxed in their views even more when challenged and it makes them even more unlikely to change their opinion.
There's challenge....and challenge.

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On the other hand, if you don't challenge peoples opinions, how do we move forward as a society to a more liberal, live and let live approach?
I guess that was OP's intention too.

I do not know at which end of the liberal spectrum he sees himself.

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It's a genuine question I have and as expected EF provides much more entertainment and keyboard depreciation rather than an answer. But I keep tryin', liberal aint I
I guess most or many of us have these genuine questions and, as expected, EF provides little satisfaction in this regard, but lots of entertainment. Until even the entertainment is somehow lost in that storm of opinions, misunderstandings or simply malice.
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Old 22.01.2020, 14:11
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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If Laderach owner would not want to be challenged, nobody would know about his ideas. By being open about his conviction he welcomed a debate.
Yes, in the same way the Spanish Inquisition welcomed a debate.

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Laderach has not been "called out on" anything, he openly owns his views. Agree with him or not, he is not the biggest threat to democracy, divergent cognition nor diversity.

People who go in packs and aggressively against minority opinions holders, are.
Presumably it is fine to aggressively go against minorities though.

The difference being going against someone's opinion has no negative affect on their lives (save for a bit of hurty head trying to think why they might be wrong), whereas going against a minority will have a devastating effect on their members' lives.
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Old 22.01.2020, 14:17
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Yes, in the same way the Spanish Inquisition welcomed a debate.
Wow! StirB = Nelson Mandela and Laderach = Spanish Inquisition. Your points of reference are waaay off mate!
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Old 22.01.2020, 14:18
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Yes, in the same way the Spanish Inquisition welcomed a debate.

Presumably it is fine to aggressively go against minorities though.

The difference being going against someone's opinion has no negative affect on their lives (save for a bit of hurty head trying to think why they might be wrong), whereas going against a minority will have a devastating effect on their members' lives.
Going aggressively against minority opinion in public can have devastating effect.

Going aggressively against minority in public can have devastating effect.

Laderach does neither.
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Old 22.01.2020, 14:21
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Wow! StirB = Nelson Mandela and Laderach = Spanish Inquisition. Your points of reference are waaay off mate!
Shush now, contribute something useful to the debate or let your dad back on the PC.

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Going aggressively against minority opinion in public can have devastating effect.

Going aggressively against minority in public can have devastating effect.

Laderach does neither.
We shall have to agree to disagree here. I believe funding what is essentially a hate group trying to enact policy change to the detriment of homosexuals (and women) as going aggressively against a minority.

Not sure you can really semantic your way out of that, I shall enjoy your ignoble attempt however.
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Old 22.01.2020, 14:23
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Shush now, contribute something useful to the debate or let your dad back on the PC.
I'm a dog actually. You can't win an argument against me, can you imagine what would happen if my human takes the keyboard?
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Old 22.01.2020, 14:25
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Do we have human and animal rights at risk now.
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