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Old 01.02.2020, 14:42
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Aren't these desperate attempts to stir the pot (online forum) by shaming people for whatever position they may choose to have equally bad as that "virtue signalling" the neocons use to blame?
Yes. It's exactly that hypocrisy that I find so very sad. Along with an apparent lack of self-awareness.
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  #1122  
Old 02.02.2020, 12:34
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

As long as the product, that I can buy, as a thing is apolitical, serves its purpose very well, is of good quality, is healthy for use by me and good for the environment, then I don't care who produces it (btw, I do not eat sweets containing saccharose, and I don't consider a chocolate to be healthy). Maybe if I learn about the producer donating the income for some serious, immoral case, then I refuse to buy whatever is sold by him, because I don't want my money to support something I am against. Someone just being anti-something is just an opinion, not an action. For me it is of low importance and can be accepted. In other words, I respect someone's opinion even if it is different.
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Old 02.02.2020, 12:43
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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In other words, I respect someone's opinion even if it is different.
What a delightfully vague, vapid and meaningless statement. Do you 'respect' the view of white-supremacists? Holocaust deniers? Proponents of eugenics?
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Old 02.02.2020, 12:51
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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What a delightfully vague, vapid and meaningless statement. Do you 'respect' the view of white-supremacists? Holocaust deniers? Proponents of eugenics?

Yes. Everyone has the right to have a wrong opinion. Opinion is not an action.
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  #1125  
Old 02.02.2020, 12:56
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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What a delightfully vague, vapid and meaningless statement. Do you 'respect' the view of white-supremacists? Holocaust deniers? Proponents of eugenics?
I suspect the suspicious new user means "right to an opinion" rather than respecting the opinion itself.
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  #1126  
Old 02.02.2020, 13:20
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Yes. Everyone has the right to have a wrong opinion. Opinion is not an action.
If you respect the views of people on such topics then I can only assume you lack the strength or conviction to oppose them. If I met someone in daily life who told me they believed in those views I wouldn't hesitate to tell them exactly what I thought and there is no way in hell I could respect their opinion when such views are in direct opposition to decent fundamental principles, morality and human rights.

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I suspect the suspicious new user means "right to an opinion" rather than respecting the opinion itself.
I think that should be obvious from the context and doesn't need spelling out, as clearly I wouldn't suggesting they personally believed in all of those things.
  #1127  
Old 02.02.2020, 13:20
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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As long as the product, that I can buy, as a thing is apolitical, serves its purpose very well, is of good quality, is healthy for use by me and good for the environment, then I don't care who produces it (btw, I do not eat sweets containing saccharose, and I don't consider a chocolate to be healthy). Maybe if I learn about the producer donating the income for some serious, immoral case, then I refuse to buy whatever is sold by him, because I don't want my money to support something I am against. Someone just being anti-something is just an opinion, not an action. For me it is of low importance and can be accepted. In other words, I respect someone's opinion even if it is different.
I take it you mean well and believe in tolerance. I'm afraid you'll realise one day or another that an ambivalent attitude towards intolerance it will only make things worse in the long run. But hey, each at their own pace and each during their own journey.
Take care and welcome to the forum.
Enjoy your chocolate, whatever that is.
  #1128  
Old 02.02.2020, 13:35
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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I suspect the suspicious new user means "right to an opinion" rather than respecting the opinion itself.

After thinking about it for some time, I agree with StirB. I should correct myself from respecting an opinion to respecting the right to have an opinion. Thanks StirB.
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  #1129  
Old 02.02.2020, 13:37
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Yes. Everyone has the right to have a wrong opinion. Opinion is not an action
True, but in this particular case, the family are funneling money into, and actively campaigned for these courses. In other words, they are trying to get others to support them. It's no longer just an opinion.

That's a worry in a country with direct democracy and quite an actively religious population.
  #1130  
Old 02.02.2020, 13:40
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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If you respect the views of people on such topics then I can only assume you lack the strength or conviction to oppose them. If I met someone in daily life who told me they believed in those views I wouldn't hesitate to tell them exactly what I thought and there is no way in hell I could respect their opinion when such views are in direct opposition to decent fundamental principles, morality and human rights.
You mean those fundamental principles, morality and human rights which seem to change every few decades?
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  #1131  
Old 02.02.2020, 13:43
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Yes. Everyone has the right to have a wrong opinion. Opinion is not an action.
Shouldn't you differentiate a bit more here?

Holocaust deniers, flat earthers, creationists etc all deny facts.
That's different than having a set of values or principles of what is right and wrong.

I can't really take the first group serious but if there are cultural or religious beliefs, then I agree that everyone has the right to have an opinion, no matter how crazy or backward it could be, as we live in a society that respects freedom of religion.
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  #1132  
Old 02.02.2020, 13:54
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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After thinking about it for some time, I agree with StirB. I should correct myself from respecting an opinion to respecting the right to have an opinion. Thanks StirB.
It was obvious that's what you meant, but it is still flawed logic if that opinion is contrary to everything you believe. I do not respect anyone's right to believe those things, because by doing so they are clearly terrible people and if they voice them in any way then **** them.

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You mean those fundamental principles, morality and human rights which seem to change every few decades?
So, are you suggesting that 'in a few decades' we will all revert to thinking whites are supreme, anyone with genetic defects should be banned from reproducing and that it was fine that holocausts are acceptable?

Hello forum crazy person #2532.
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  #1133  
Old 02.02.2020, 13:58
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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So, are you suggesting that in a few decades we will all revert to thinking whites are supreme, anyone with genetic defects should be banned from reproducing and that it was fine that holocausts are acceptable?

Hello forum crazy person #2532.
Perhaps not do that extent but anti-semitism seems to be on the increase again in some pockets of Europe and there's been genocide again in Europe only 25 years ago in Bosnia.
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  #1134  
Old 02.02.2020, 14:00
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Perhaps not do that extent but anti-semitism seems to be on the increase again in some pockets of Europe and there's been genocide again in Europe only 25 years ago in Bosnia.
That is not the same thing as our own Western societies in general thinking those things are acceptable. Right-wing views will always be held by people and genocides still happen.
  #1135  
Old 02.02.2020, 14:04
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Perhaps not do that extent but anti-semitism seems to be on the increase again in some pockets of Europe and there's been genocide again in Europe only 25 years ago in Bosnia.
Not to mention hate crimes currently being on the rise in lots of different places.

Btw, apparently anti-semitism is on the rise in New York if you can believe that.


https://www.france24.com/en/20200105...-the-defensive

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  #1136  
Old 02.02.2020, 14:10
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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So, are you suggesting that in a few decades we will all revert to thinking whites are supreme, anyone with genetic defects should be banned from reproducing and that it was fine that holocausts are acceptable?

Hello forum crazy person #2532.
Hi arrogant forum user.

I'm suggesting that certain views such as Mr Läderachs may have been acceptable 20 odd years ago, that what a society finds acceptable or unacceptable changes over time.
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  #1137  
Old 02.02.2020, 14:14
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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I'm suggesting that certain views such as Mr Läderachs may have been acceptable 20 odd years ago, that what a society finds acceptable or unacceptable changes over time.
Actually you're suggesting that certain rights are not worth much consideration because they apparently change every few decades.

Your post, not chuff's or mine

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You mean those fundamental principles, morality and human rights which seem to change every few decades?
  #1138  
Old 02.02.2020, 14:17
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Hi arrogant forum user.

I'm suggesting that certain views such as Mr Läderachs may have been acceptable 20 odd years ago, that what a society finds acceptable or unacceptable changes over time.
Do you even know what you are writing?

In the context of Mr. Läderachs views yes it was not so long ago since such views were more common, but not in the context of the other abhorrent and very extreme views that you so casually palm off. You suggested that "every few decades" opinions on such things may swing to the opposite ends of the spectrum as though this somehow lessens the impact of or justifies Mr L's (or other far more extremist) views and clearly the way society iin general s going that is not going to happen. Women and homosexuals are moving further towards equality with every year, their rights are becoming entrenched in society, and to think this will suddenly reverse is simply illogical at best.
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  #1139  
Old 02.02.2020, 14:28
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

I have a cousin who is against abortion and highly religious. She posts articles on Facebook on how Trump visited anti-abortion rallies and of photos showing fetuses at certain stages of development.

I like and respect this person but I abhor some of her views. As long as her views represent the minority, I don't care what she thinks. However, once anti-abortion laws start getting passed in the US, (which they're pushing), I become extremely worried about the quality of the politicians and the corruption of the system.

Here is Switzerland, most Swiss are pro-choice and for LGBQ equality so I don't see any chance of laws being changed negatively, despite any financial support otherwise from wealthy families.

As long as Läderach is treating its employees fairly and is producing a product that treats and pays its suppliers fairly, I will continue to show support for the company. It is the right of the Läderach family to have any view they wish but it is illegal to implement those views in company policy and the hiring or treatment of their employees. Since I have it on good authority that Läderach treats their employees fairly, I will continue to support the product and company.

As for all this virtue signaling (what a newfangled term!), do you equally question the quality of treatment of workers who produce your clothes, etc.? I hope so otherwise you're cherry picking.

For those who oppose the Läderach family, it's your right to express those views and avoid the product. But please remember, there are others who may equally be against Läderach's views but still buy the product due to other factors.

I'm for Greta but understand those who are opposed to her as a person. She comes across harsh and accusing, which puts many people off. I, for one, feel that I understand her message and the person that she is and will defend her as long as I can.

Thank goodness we've got a board like this where we can express our views without it leading to violence or banning (unless the poster is needlessly provocative). That's tolerance and my support for "virtue signalling."
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  #1140  
Old 02.02.2020, 14:30
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Do you even know what you are writing?

In the context of Mr. Läderachs views yes it was not so long ago since such views were more common, but not in the context of the other abhorrent and very extreme views that you so casually palm off. You suggested that "every few decades" opinions on such things may swing to the opposite ends of the spectrum as though this somehow lessens the impact of or justifies Mr L's (or other far more extremist) views and clearly the way society iin general s going that is not going to happen. Women and homosexuals are moving further towards equality with every year, their rights are becoming entrenched in society, and to think this will suddenly reverse is simply illogical at best.
Chuff... you're so wrong. See the success of the pro-life movement in the US.
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