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  #1141  
Old 02.02.2020, 14:41
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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I'm for Greta but understand those who are opposed to her as a person. She comes across harsh and accusing, which puts many people off. I, for one, feel that I understand her message and the person that she is and will defend her as long as I can.
Those who snap at Greta are usually loud climate change deniers. I'm sure that those who agree with her in principle but don't like her style, or maybe not even her as a person, refrain from diminishing or bullying her.
  #1142  
Old 02.02.2020, 14:54
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Chuff... you're so wrong. See the success of the pro-life movement in the US.
I am not "so" wrong, think about it. The USA is a country currently with a scarily high proportion of right-wing conservative and/or religious fundamentalist nutjobs... there has been aggressive back and forth on the abortion issue for a LONG time now and likely will be for a couple of generations yet. Add to this that the USA is currently presided over by an unhinged sociopath belonging to a highly conservative party who is giving right-wing nutters a platform to push their agendas and it is clear that this is not "the norm". The majority of Americans are pro-abortion, this is a matter of record backed up by studies https://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/...n-on-abortion/

I consider the EU zone far more progressive than the USA in such matters.
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  #1143  
Old 02.02.2020, 15:09
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Chuff, in this case I’m right but I wish I weren’t. Although the majority may still be pro-choice, pro-lifers are better represented in the present US government, which is leading to a slow erosion of women’s rights. It frightens me.

Having said that, I don’t see Swiss laws taking the same turn.
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  #1144  
Old 02.02.2020, 15:13
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Those who snap at Greta are usually loud climate change deniers. I'm sure that those who agree with her in principle but don't like her style, or maybe not even her as a person, refrain from diminishing or bullying her.
Those who dislike Greta aren’t necessarily climate deniers. They just don’t like her style of protest.
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  #1145  
Old 02.02.2020, 15:22
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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the USA is currently presided over by an unhinged sociopath
No, she lost to Trump.

Tom
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  #1146  
Old 02.02.2020, 17:47
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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What a delightfully vague, vapid and meaningless statement. Do you 'respect' the view of white-supremacists? Holocaust deniers? Proponents of eugenics?
I like the way that you've equated Läderach's views to white supremacy and holocaust denial. Well done!

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Those who dislike Greta aren’t necessarily climate deniers. They just don’t like her style of protest.
Quite. I am pretty sure the science shows that climate is changing, and it's been made worse by human activity. I do not agree with Greta's arguments, nor do I like her style of protest. I'm neutral on her as a person. She's just a human with all the quirks and conflictions that go with that.
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  #1147  
Old 02.02.2020, 18:13
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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do you equally question the quality of treatment of workers who produce your clothes, etc.?
The boycotters in this thread are carefully avoiding this question. Maybe because Läderach is an easy victiim (and most aren't clients anyway) but consequential ethical consuming requires hard choices and giving up a lot of things. I can't do it but have respect for the ones that can.
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  #1148  
Old 02.02.2020, 18:23
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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The boycotters in this thread are carefully avoiding this question. Maybe because Läderach is an easy victiim (and most aren't clients anyway) but consequential ethical consuming requires hard choices and giving up a lot of things. I can't do it but have respect for the ones that can.
After watching a few documentaries on deforestation, our children have decided to give up buying and eating anything involving palm oil - which means quite a lot of kid-friendly stuff is now not allowed in our house.
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  #1149  
Old 02.02.2020, 18:37
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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After watching a few documentaries on deforestation, our children have decided to give up buying and eating anything involving palm oil - which means quite a lot of kid-friendly stuff is now not allowed in our house.
Maybe future generations will become better at discerning whether a product is marketed for children and what truly lies in their best interests in the long run... let's hope!
  #1150  
Old 02.02.2020, 19:46
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

I doubt it. Have you met them?
  #1151  
Old 03.02.2020, 07:05
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Came across this one today: Swiss airline drops Läderach As a supplier

In case you don't want to click on the link:

SWISS Airline Ditches Chocolate Supplier Over CEO’s Hateful Religious Advocacy

Switzerland’s international airline has what you might call a pretty sweet policy: In honor of the country’s rich history of chocolate-making, every passenger is welcome to free chocolate.

For the past decade, Swiss International Air Line (also called SWISS) has been providing premium passengers in particular with pralines from one of the nation’s best chocolatiers, a company called Läderach. Beginning in April of this year, however, Läderach chocolates will no longer be available on SWISS flights.

Why? Because company CEO Johannes Läderach is an evangelical Christian with a vocal and public stance against same-sex marriage and the right to abortion.

That has led the company into controversy in recent months, with LGBTQ organizations calling for a boycott of Läderach chocolates. In October, one of the company’s stores was stink-bombed in protest. A more peaceful protest took place in December, with same-sex couples engaging in public displays of affection in front of a Läderach branch.

Läderach’s head of marketing, Patrick Th. Onken says the split occurred because SWISS was concerned about all the negative news coverage Läderach was receiving.

Johannes Läderach says his company has been maligned unfairly and that discrimination is not part of his company’s ethos:

Because I fight for the unborn life, I’m accused of misogyny. But I’m not a misogynist — 60% of our managers are women.

They’d just better hope they never need to end a pregnancy… at least if Läderach had anything to say about it.

In a similar vein:

No one at Läderach is homophobic — neither the management nor the staff. We have homosexuals working for us. We don’t ask about it. Läderach has a zero-tolerance policy regarding discrimination.

Setting aside the fact that “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policies seldom result in accepting environments, a willingness to hire gay workers does little to offset the fact that the company’s profits go into campaigns against LGBTQ rights and abortion access.
Yes, Johannes, it turns out that sharing a work environment with people isn’t the same thing as supporting their human rights.

The reality is that Johannes and his father, Jürg Läderach, are members of an advocacy group called Christianity for Today (formerly Christians for Truth). In fact, Jürg is the group’s president. The group’s secretary, one Walter Mannhart, is also head of procurement for the chocolatier. The group has campaigned against same-sex marriage, medically assisted dying, pornography, and fornication, as well as media properties like Harry Potter or Jesus Christ Superstar. Jürg also serves as treasurer for controversial anti-abortion group Marsch Für Läbe (March For Life).

As one Swiss magazine pointed out, SWISS has “many gay crew members,” which might have been a factor in the decision to break ties with Läderach. Or perhaps it’s simply a business decision to avoid tarnishing the SWISS brand with proximity to an organization that supports evangelical bigotry. Either way, Läderach is not entitled to their business.
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  #1152  
Old 03.02.2020, 07:21
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

One goes to Läderach for the chocolate not for anything else
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  #1153  
Old 03.02.2020, 07:25
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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I didn't 'equate it' (wow, your lack of contextual awareness is astounding, to the point where I would objectively hazard a guess that you register on certain spectrums)... I used it as an exaggerated example of that poster saying they are 'tolerant to anyone's right to an opinion on anything' to show how little it makes sense to me unless you don't really have strong opinionated feelings on said topics. So, to spell it out for those of you with similar difficulties to yours, obviously I do not equate Mr. L's feelings on homosexuals and abortion with the holocaust.



Question and answer have already been asked and answered (do you really think it wouldn't have come up by this point in the thread?), so it's likely you guys just haven't read the thread. Go through the read post by post and read it to avoid asking repeat questions.
People are too sensitive these days. Don't they understand the saying " sticks and stones may break my bones but names can never hurt me "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI4KwLhv9dY

Please share this with you friends and enemies!
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  #1154  
Old 03.02.2020, 07:26
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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No one at Läderach is homophobic — neither the management nor the staff. We have homosexuals working for us. We don’t ask about it. Läderach has a zero-tolerance policy regarding discrimination.
This quote of Johannes Läderach's, in particular, is absurd. As if, in a South African apartheid context, by analogy, he were to say
No one at Läderach is racist — neither the management nor the staff. We have Black people working for us. We don’t ask about it. Läderach has a zero-tolerance policy regarding discrimination.

but then...
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.... sharing a work environment with people isn’t the same thing as supporting their human rights.
South Africa? Oh, yes, that's where they fund (or gain from) further dubious projects, through the "mission" Kwasizabantu and its ventures, which are now under scrutiny for money-laundering. The people there were encouraged to serve, serve, serve, because that was the right thing to do before God, they were told, while the profits were gathered in, kerching.

https://www.facebook.com/MikeBolhuis...3589903751190/
  #1155  
Old 03.02.2020, 08:34
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Aren't these desperate attempts to stir the pot (online forum) by shaming people for whatever position they may choose to have equally bad as that "virtue signalling" the neocons use to blame?

Think of it a little, after you're done with this internet power trip.
I think the Laderach boycott or the Laderach "issue" is not the problem here. It seems some people can't get over the fact that others take the liberty to "virtue signal" and "pose" as they see fit. As some mod put it - shaming others for shaming others will never work.
Absolutely not! This is an expression to describe what happens when zealous people or organizations decide to become a cultural police force. They perceive something that is not socially just and decide to whip up a vocal crowd against it. This usually takes form online and I guess is simply the next level from the boycotts from 30-40 years ago that took place on many university campuses, as well as elsewhere, to Nestle and products made in Israel.

The problem these days is that many corporations are gullible enough to go along with it, so that a vocal online group can cause companies like Swiss to take action, without any evidence for the said action being supported by a majority of its customers. There was a similar story recently of Nike dropping and apologizing for a line of trainers that were perceived to be racist.
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  #1156  
Old 03.02.2020, 08:40
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

I am glad that people like Mr Läderach do engage in the action which they do, not because I agree with everything he is calling for, but because it helps keep the debate balanced without it running away into unstoppable degeneracy. There are many areas of human rights where I believe we are either on the verge of, or have already gone too far. For me, this lies in areas where ones human rights begin to infringe on the rights of others.

For example, whilst I accept the need for abortions under certain circumstances, I am also opposed to them because I believe a child’s right to life outweighs a mother’s right to have an abortion. Or whilst I have no problem with individual rights for gay couples, I draw the line at adoption/insemination, because I believe a gay couples right to have a child is outweighed by a child’s right to have a mother and a father. Similarly, if people wish to self-identify as Trans then that is fine, but they shouldn’t legally be allowed to use lavatories of the opposite sex as it intrudes on the rights and safety of others using the same toilets.

You may not agree with my views, but there is logical reasoning for having them, in the same way there is logical reasoning for Mr Läderach’s views. Unlike Mr Läderach, I don’t go around trying to enforce my views on others, and they’re actually something I keep largely to myself. Here Mr Läderach and Chuff are actually very similar in this regard. Most of us lie somewhere in the middle.
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  #1157  
Old 03.02.2020, 08:48
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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News was already posted several days ago, but haven't seen that specific article posted.
The article is dated yesterday.

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I am glad that people like Mr Läderach do engage in the action which they do, not because I agree with everything he is calling for, but because it helps keep the debate balanced without it running away into unstoppable degeneracy.
You're glad that Mr Läderach leads his religious association, not because you agree with what he's calling for, but you do agree with what he's calling for? You can't have the cake and eat it, Tony. Your statement "I believe a gay couples right to have a child is outweighed by a child’s right to have a mother and a father" says enough: you DO support his association's message. You ARE anti-abortion, and you do oppose at least some gay rights.

You have every right to your opinions and beliefs, don't get me wrong, but I think you're trying to whitewash your personal beliefs under a blanket of fake objectivity/neutrality, i.e. "I think they provide balance".
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  #1158  
Old 03.02.2020, 08:53
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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For example, whilst I accept the need for abortions under certain circumstances, I am also opposed to them because I believe a child’s right to life outweighs a mother’s right to have an abortion. Or whilst I have no problem with individual rights for gay couples, I draw the line at adoption/insemination, because I believe a gay couples right to have a child is outweighed by a child’s right to have a mother and a father.
Do you actually know what 'insemination' means? Apparently not.

Perhaps you ought to study a bit of biology before ranting?

And what happens to a child's rights if the mother or father dies?
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  #1159  
Old 03.02.2020, 08:55
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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The article is dated yesterday.
It's the English language version of stuff from last week.

Tom
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  #1160  
Old 03.02.2020, 09:14
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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You're glad that Mr Läderach leads his religious association, not because you agree with what he's calling for, but you do agree with what he's calling for? You can't have the cake and eat it, Tony. Your statement "I believe a gay couples right to have a child is outweighed by a child’s right to have a mother and a father" says enough: you DO support his association's message. You ARE anti-abortion, and you do oppose at least some gay rights.

You have every right to your opinions and beliefs, don't get me wrong, but I think you're trying to whitewash your personal beliefs under a blanket of fake objectivity/neutrality, i.e. "I think they provide balance".
Are you selectively reading what I wrote?

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Do you actually know what 'insemination' means?
Do you?
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