To sum up:

Basically what Full Circle and Tony Clifton are saying is that gay people shouldn't have the same set of rights as straight people (because they think they are inferior, perhaps).

Who else do they feel is inferior:

Jews?
Coloured people?
Gypsies?
Physically handicapped?

so they are an accessory for you? glad we clear that out then

But they can't naturally have/create them. That's why it seems unnatural to me.

You forgot folk with mental health issues.
Older parents.
Very young parents.
Mixed race couples?

Lots of hetrosexual couples can't conceive naturally either.

Neither can some heterosexual couples. You say you wanted a family. What would/wouldn't you have done to make that happen if "natural " procreation hadn't occurred?

Bigotry, homophobia and racism seem to be the "natural " state for some people. That seems unnatural to me.


Tom, our posts must have crossed.

so any straight couple that is incapable of having children should not adopt, by that logic. Only those that have children should be allowed.

you need to stop this appeal to nature fallacy.

(i see rufusb got this)

Well hopefully in a male / male relationship the child will know what he wants for himself and not be put under any parent pressure. Very difficult for the child I would imagine. In the end one has to consider what is best for the child

But that's usually due to some sort of health issue. They have the right equipment but it just doesn't work for whatever reason.

That's quite a bit different from a homosexual couple who cannot conceive a child together due to the fact they are the same sex.

As much as the topic of gay rights interests me, I think it needs to be said that this discussion will most probably not change anyone's minds.

If debating is the food of the minds, play on...

What if the hetero couple don't have the "right equipment"? For example, a testicular injury, an early hysterectomy... lots of reasons.

Plus Olygirl is right.

I never said anything against adoption, I said a same sex couple wanting a child seemed creepy to me.

Surely the only salient question here is do children of same-sex couples have as good outcomes as those of heterosexual families?

Studies show that they do indeed have equally good outcomes.

Anything else is projection of morality (gay people shouldn't be allowed to have kids) and not helpful for a fact based discussion.

You are free to think that same-sex adoption is disgusting, but as it does not have an adverse affect on the child then that is just your own bigotry, not outcome based in any way at all.

Not correct. There's PLENTY of research on the topic. And I'm not sure what you mean by "long term". Childhood ends fairly quickly, in the bigger scope of things.

Can you back your claim of little research? How much time did you spend on the US National Library of Medicine's "National Institutes of Health" scholar library? Or in PubMed? I just searched for "gay parenting" and got 1856 studies. Unfiltered, true. But ONLY in the US, and only 1 search.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/?term=gay+parenting

Sorry if I come across as rude, but your confirmation bias is a very deceptive argument, and if you are quoting research, it makes it look as though you knew what you were talking about.

__________________
The internet makes it easy to be a jerk and forget the person we're talking to is a human. It also makes us see messages from awful people and assume they come from normal peers.

Wow. Just. And some of you are parents? Oy-freakin-vey!

I've not just had a quick glance at some of those studies, and the samples used are not really qualitatively good enough to give conclusive evidence. The main flaws is the lack of randomly selected, population based samples, on studies that have been carried out over a longer period of time. One study was of 40 gay father families and 55 lesbian mother families which simply isn't large enough for a reliable statistical analysis. Add to this that many studies are based on questionnaires and volunteer samples that leave themselves open to bias.

Having seen first hand the emotional and physical needs that a newborn baby has for its mother, I am absolutely unconvinced that this can ever be replicated by a man.

You start out talking about samples and statistics but your conclusion is based on your own anecdotal observation.

And what happens in families where the father is left to raise children alone...are they all doomed? Don’t think so.

Are you gay yourself, not that it bothers me

Plenty of fathers are the primary /sole caregiver to an infant. If it's a breastfeeding thing then plenty of women don't do that . I'm sure you have a view on that too.


This thread. It's just exposed a hideous vein of homophobia.

fortunately I know this excellent church some posters here will fit right in with, Its in glarus but I'm sure there will be a free chocolate bar or two in it for you.