Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news  
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1241  
Old 03.02.2020, 15:27
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 14,691
Groaned at 464 Times in 370 Posts
Thanked 20,530 Times in 8,516 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

To sum up:

Basically what Full Circle and Tony Clifton are saying is that gay people shouldn't have the same set of rights as straight people (because they think they are inferior, perhaps).

Who else do they feel is inferior:

Jews?
Coloured people?
Gypsies?
Physically handicapped?
The following 3 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #1242  
Old 03.02.2020, 15:28
Ouchboy's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Baden
Posts: 3,217
Groaned at 42 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 5,152 Times in 2,000 Posts
Ouchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Quote:
View Post
Yes I do. I had them for the child benefits

My wife and I had kids as we wanted to create a family together.
so they are an accessory for you? glad we clear that out then
  #1243  
Old 03.02.2020, 15:29
Full Circle's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Bern
Posts: 221
Groaned at 134 Times in 71 Posts
Thanked 584 Times in 276 Posts
Full Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Quote:
So does any other couple. Doesn't make you superior or right because you're (presumably) heterosexual.
But they can't naturally have/create them. That's why it seems unnatural to me.
  #1244  
Old 03.02.2020, 15:29
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Quote:
View Post
To sum up:

Basically what Full Circle and Tony Clifton are saying is that gay people shouldn't have the same set of rights as straight people (because they think they are inferior, perhaps).

Who else do they feel is inferior:

Jews?
Coloured people?
Gypsies?
Physically handicapped?
You forgot folk with mental health issues.
Older parents.
Very young parents.
Mixed race couples?
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #1245  
Old 03.02.2020, 15:31
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 14,691
Groaned at 464 Times in 370 Posts
Thanked 20,530 Times in 8,516 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Quote:
View Post
But they can't naturally have/create them. That's why it seems unnatural to me.
Lots of hetrosexual couples can't conceive naturally either.
The following 4 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #1246  
Old 03.02.2020, 15:32
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Quote:
View Post
But they can't naturally have/create them. That's why it seems unnatural to me.
Neither can some heterosexual couples. You say you wanted a family. What would/wouldn't you have done to make that happen if "natural " procreation hadn't occurred?

Bigotry, homophobia and racism seem to be the "natural " state for some people. That seems unnatural to me.


Tom, our posts must have crossed.

Last edited by RufusB; 03.02.2020 at 15:32. Reason: Cross posting
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #1247  
Old 03.02.2020, 15:32
Ouchboy's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Baden
Posts: 3,217
Groaned at 42 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 5,152 Times in 2,000 Posts
Ouchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Quote:
View Post
But they can't naturally have/create them. That's why it seems unnatural to me.
so any straight couple that is incapable of having children should not adopt, by that logic. Only those that have children should be allowed.

you need to stop this appeal to nature fallacy.

(i see rufusb got this)
This user would like to thank Ouchboy for this useful post:
  #1248  
Old 03.02.2020, 15:32
omtatsat's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: CH
Posts: 10,829
Groaned at 2,030 Times in 1,118 Posts
Thanked 5,070 Times in 3,203 Posts
omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Quote:
View Post
But they can't naturally have/create them. That's why it seems unnatural to me.

Well hopefully in a male / male relationship the child will know what he wants for himself and not be put under any parent pressure. Very difficult for the child I would imagine. In the end one has to consider what is best for the child
  #1249  
Old 03.02.2020, 15:48
Full Circle's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Bern
Posts: 221
Groaned at 134 Times in 71 Posts
Thanked 584 Times in 276 Posts
Full Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Quote:
View Post
Lots of hetrosexual couples can't conceive naturally either.
But that's usually due to some sort of health issue. They have the right equipment but it just doesn't work for whatever reason.

That's quite a bit different from a homosexual couple who cannot conceive a child together due to the fact they are the same sex.
The following 3 users would like to thank Full Circle for this useful post:
  #1250  
Old 03.02.2020, 15:51
olygirl's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: d' Innerschwiiz
Posts: 6,202
Groaned at 269 Times in 181 Posts
Thanked 13,943 Times in 4,267 Posts
olygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

As much as the topic of gay rights interests me, I think it needs to be said that this discussion will most probably not change anyone's minds.

If debating is the food of the minds, play on...
The following 2 users would like to thank olygirl for this useful post:
  #1251  
Old 03.02.2020, 15:59
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Quote:
View Post
But that's usually due to some sort of health issue. They have the right equipment but it just doesn't work for whatever reason.

That's quite a bit different from a homosexual couple who cannot conceive a child together due to the fact they are the same sex.
What if the hetero couple don't have the "right equipment"? For example, a testicular injury, an early hysterectomy... lots of reasons.

Plus Olygirl is right.
  #1252  
Old 03.02.2020, 16:07
Full Circle's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Bern
Posts: 221
Groaned at 134 Times in 71 Posts
Thanked 584 Times in 276 Posts
Full Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Quote:
What if the hetero couple don't have the "right equipment"? For example, a testicular injury, an early hysterectomy... lots of reasons.

Plus Olygirl is right.
I never said anything against adoption, I said a same sex couple wanting a child seemed creepy to me.
  #1253  
Old 03.02.2020, 16:07
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Surely the only salient question here is do children of same-sex couples have as good outcomes as those of heterosexual families?

Studies show that they do indeed have equally good outcomes.

Anything else is projection of morality (gay people shouldn't be allowed to have kids) and not helpful for a fact based discussion.

You are free to think that same-sex adoption is disgusting, but as it does not have an adverse affect on the child then that is just your own bigotry, not outcome based in any way at all.
The following 4 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #1254  
Old 03.02.2020, 16:08
Caleb's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Rheintal
Posts: 831
Groaned at 10 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 1,202 Times in 506 Posts
Caleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Quote:
View Post
There is little research into the long terms effects of same sex parents.
Not correct. There's PLENTY of research on the topic. And I'm not sure what you mean by "long term". Childhood ends fairly quickly, in the bigger scope of things.

Can you back your claim of little research? How much time did you spend on the US National Library of Medicine's "National Institutes of Health" scholar library? Or in PubMed? I just searched for "gay parenting" and got 1856 studies. Unfiltered, true. But ONLY in the US, and only 1 search.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/?term=gay+parenting

Sorry if I come across as rude, but your confirmation bias is a very deceptive argument, and if you are quoting research, it makes it look as though you knew what you were talking about.
__________________
HEAVEN IS A BATHTUB WITH BOOKS THAT DON'T GET WET

Last edited by Caleb; 03.02.2020 at 16:24.
This user would like to thank Caleb for this useful post:
  #1255  
Old 03.02.2020, 16:48
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Wow. Just. And some of you are parents? Oy-freakin-vey!
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #1256  
Old 03.02.2020, 16:49
TonyClifton's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Zurich
Posts: 376
Groaned at 175 Times in 110 Posts
Thanked 1,003 Times in 492 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Quote:
View Post
Not correct. There's PLENTY of research on the topic. And I'm not sure what you mean by "long term". Childhood ends fairly quickly, in the bigger scope of things.

Can you back your claim of little research? How much time did you spend on the US National Library of Medicine's "National Institutes of Health" scholar library? Or in PubMed? I just searched for "gay parenting" and got 1856 studies. Unfiltered, true. But ONLY in the US, and only 1 search.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/?term=gay+parenting

Sorry if I come across as rude, but your confirmation bias is a very deceptive argument, and if you are quoting research, it makes it look as though you knew what you were talking about.
I've not just had a quick glance at some of those studies, and the samples used are not really qualitatively good enough to give conclusive evidence. The main flaws is the lack of randomly selected, population based samples, on studies that have been carried out over a longer period of time. One study was of 40 gay father families and 55 lesbian mother families which simply isn't large enough for a reliable statistical analysis. Add to this that many studies are based on questionnaires and volunteer samples that leave themselves open to bias.

Having seen first hand the emotional and physical needs that a newborn baby has for its mother, I am absolutely unconvinced that this can ever be replicated by a man.
This user groans at TonyClifton for this post:
  #1257  
Old 03.02.2020, 16:54
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Quote:
View Post
I've not just had a quick glance at some of those studies, and the samples used are not really qualitatively good enough to give conclusive evidence. The main flaws is the lack of randomly selected, population based samples, on studies that have been carried out over a longer period of time. One study was of 40 gay father families and 55 lesbian mother families which simply isn't large enough for a reliable statistical analysis. Add to this that many studies are based on questionnaires and volunteer samples that leave themselves open to bias.

Having seen first hand the emotional and physical needs that a newborn baby has for its mother, I am absolutely unconvinced that this can ever be replicated by a man.
You start out talking about samples and statistics but your conclusion is based on your own anecdotal observation.

And what happens in families where the father is left to raise children alone...are they all doomed? Don’t think so.
The following 5 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #1258  
Old 03.02.2020, 16:56
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Quote:
View Post
I've not just had a quick glance at some of those studies, and the samples used are not really qualitatively good enough to give conclusive evidence. The main flaws is the lack of randomly selected, population based samples, on studies that have been carried out over a longer period of time. One study was of 40 gay father families and 55 lesbian mother families which simply isn't large enough for a reliable statistical analysis. Add to this that many studies are based on questionnaires and volunteer samples that leave themselves open to bias.

Having seen first hand the emotional and physical needs that a newborn baby has for its mother, I am absolutely unconvinced that this can ever be replicated by a man.

Are you gay yourself, not that it bothers me
  #1259  
Old 03.02.2020, 16:56
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Quote:
View Post

Having seen first hand the emotional and physical needs that a newborn baby has for its mother, I am absolutely unconvinced that this can ever be replicated by a man.
Plenty of fathers are the primary /sole caregiver to an infant. If it's a breastfeeding thing then plenty of women don't do that . I'm sure you have a view on that too.


This thread. It's just exposed a hideous vein of homophobia.
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #1260  
Old 03.02.2020, 16:59
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 8,059
Groaned at 486 Times in 405 Posts
Thanked 14,674 Times in 5,760 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

fortunately I know this excellent church some posters here will fit right in with, Its in glarus but I'm sure there will be a free chocolate bar or two in it for you.
The following 2 users would like to thank bigblue2 for this useful post:
Closed Thread

Tags
chocolate, laderach, lindt, sprungli




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Anti female or anti English Toontoon Daily life 129 23.02.2015 10:36
Anti Bark Collar and other anti bark tips... MaybeeSkint Pet corner 24 30.07.2014 15:07
Anti Anti Thread Confloozed Complaints corner 54 01.02.2012 12:22
[Internet] FREE Anti Virus by Microsoft sagarbm21 General off-topic 21 01.10.2009 15:42
Managed anti-spam and anti-virus service for individual domain-owners spamchek Commercial 0 13.05.2005 11:22


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 18:18.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0