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Old 15.09.2019, 07:18
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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I'm confused. People are hypocritical if they are pro choice or not pro choice? And all abortion is "before birth". What other abortion is there?
Jacek's argument is that people who are pro-choice are hypocritical if they're fine with pre-birth abortions, but not post-birth abortions. They're also not up with current medical ethics.

The link Jacek posted is a medical ethics paper promoting post-birth abortion, arguing that since abortion is about medical necessity, not morality, neo-natal euthanasia should be legal under the same conditions that abortion is.
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  #122  
Old 15.09.2019, 07:19
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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I'm surprised nobody brought up Hitler yet
(Godwin's law)
Nazis were mentioned.
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  #123  
Old 15.09.2019, 07:27
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Nazis were mentioned.
So what if Nazis are mentioned?
Who the hell on the internet decided that threads should be closed because they are mentioned? Who has that right?

A lot of what we do, say, act and think in Europe is shaped by history in the last 100 years or so.

As I wrote before, how much of what people do, say, act and think is because of the teachings from a made-up story book about super-heroes written over a thousand years ago?

Surely those threads should be closed too?
Threads mentioning pink unicorns should also be closed.
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  #124  
Old 15.09.2019, 07:45
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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So what if Nazis are mentioned?
Who the hell on the internet decided that threads should be closed because they are mentioned? Who has that right?

A lot of what we do, say, act and think in Europe is shaped by history in the last 100 years or so.

As I wrote before, how much of what people do, say, act and think is because of the teachings from a made-up story book about super-heroes written over a thousand years ago?

Surely those threads should be closed too?
Threads mentioning pink unicorns should also be closed.
You're new to this internet thing, aren't you?
  #125  
Old 15.09.2019, 08:10
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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. . .
A lot of what we do, say, act and think in Europe is shaped by history in the last 100 years or so.
. . .
A lot of what we do, say, act and think in Europe is shaped by Google search results and the so called Main Stream Media. Our ideas in the moral and ethical domain have all the stability of a leaf blowing around in the Autumn breeze.

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. . .
As I wrote before, how much of what people do, say, act and think is because of the teachings from a made-up story book about super-heroes written over a thousand years ago?
. . .
Indeed, and you have said it twice. In those days they were so ignorant that they could count only two genders.
  #126  
Old 15.09.2019, 08:42
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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argument is that people who are pro-choice are hypocritical if they're fine with pre-birth abortions, but not post-birth abortions. They're also not up with current medical ethics.

The link Jacek posted is a medical ethics paper promoting post-birth abortion, arguing that since abortion is about medical necessity, not morality, neo-natal euthanasia should be legal under the same conditions that abortion is.
Everybody can have their own view/opinion. You don't approve certain "ways of life" and "certain people", fine, as long as you don't incite to hatred. Although, I have also read opinions who were coming from people who were clearly expressing their hate towards certain groups. I feel flatulent when I read these people's comments. (not anyone specifically here, honestly....in general)

Now, apart from these internet discussions, what counts is what happens in real life. I don't believe we have that many reasons for concerns in Europe, seriously. Abortions and homosexuality are legal, and haven't heard of people being beaten up in the street or thrown out of the buildings or other atrocities here. Or abortion clinics blown up. (OK, quickly revising this info, Ireland and the Northern part of the continent might be....different? if so, well....)
I think the more attention you pay to people like Laderach's owners, the more you antagonise the public opinion and even people who would have been neutral otherwise, will go out of their way to express their "disapproval" and "hear hear"....
Let's live and let live and pick our fights more carefully. Certain rights that we fight for so long.....nah, they're not going anywhere.
Suck it up, Laderach!

Last edited by greenmount; 15.09.2019 at 09:16. Reason: on a second thought....nah
  #127  
Old 15.09.2019, 08:56
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Indeed, and you have said it twice. In those days they were so ignorant that they could count only two genders.
Not really. In Persia 3,000 years ago they recognised 3 genders, and the native Americans, who got there about 15,000 years ago recognise a shedload of genders. Good agenda pushing effort though.
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  #128  
Old 15.09.2019, 09:16
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Gender is a social construct anyway. Society and its cultures are in a constant state of flux. It can't be stopped.

This is why social conservatism is so pointless: the world is never going to return to that comfortable combination of "how things were when I was five" and "how things were better in the imagined past". One might as well command the tide to stay out.

Doesn't stop some silly sods from trying, though.
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  #129  
Old 15.09.2019, 09:17
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Not really. In Persia 3,000 years ago they recognised 3 genders, and the native Americans, who got there about 15,000 years ago recognise a shedload of genders. Good agenda pushing effort though.
But they used to smoke something very strong back in the day...
  #130  
Old 15.09.2019, 09:29
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Gender is a social construct anyway. Society and its cultures are in a constant state of flux. It can't be stopped.

This is why social conservatism is so pointless: the world is never going to return to that comfortable combination of "how things were when I was five" and "how things were better in the imagined past". One might as well command the tide to stay out.

Doesn't stop some silly sods from trying, though.
Indeed, it is the equivalent of people trying to argue whether Octopuses, Octopi or Octopodes is correct. The fact is language evolves, just like society and realistically, they are all correct as everyone knows what you are talking about.
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  #131  
Old 15.09.2019, 09:33
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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So what if Nazis are mentioned?
Who the hell on the internet decided that threads should be closed because they are mentioned?
Godwin
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Who has that right?
Godwin
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As I wrote before, how much of what people do, say, act and think is because of the teachings from a made-up story book about super-heroes written over a thousand years ago?

Surely those threads should be closed too?
Threads mentioning pink unicorns should also be closed.
No, because they don't fall foul of Godwin's law.
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  #132  
Old 15.09.2019, 12:29
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Jacek's argument is that people who are pro-choice are hypocritical if they're fine with pre-birth abortions, but not post-birth abortions. They're also not up with current medical ethics.

The link Jacek posted is a medical ethics paper promoting post-birth abortion, arguing that since abortion is about medical necessity, not morality, neo-natal euthanasia should be legal under the same conditions that abortion is.
Neo- natal euthanasia by definition is not abortion.

I disagree that one should automatically equate the other, however.

I suspect the two authors of that article were either exercising a purely academic theory or, more likely, aiming for notoriety amingst their peers. Nothing to do with "current medical ethics". Good luck finding a doctor who will agree that killing a newborn just "because" is ethical.

This all feels dangerously like an argument to prevent women having control over their own bodies. Parts of the US are already closer to The Handmaid's Tale than is comfortable.

Last edited by RufusB; 15.09.2019 at 12:39.
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  #133  
Old 15.09.2019, 12:35
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Jacek's argument is that people who are pro-choice are hypocritical if they're fine with pre-birth abortions, but not post-birth abortions.
If it's post birth, it's NOT abortion, it's infanticide.

Look up the meaning of the word 'abort'.

Tom
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  #134  
Old 15.09.2019, 14:07
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/p...nbow-5qrqhxqsk


The rainbow flag was waved proudly by the lead singer at the BBC's Last night of the proms tonight, but no advertising from Läderach, funny that!
The thing is - there is activism and flying a flag and all that.

And then there are those who continue to not buy something overpriced but pretend that this time it for ethical reasons.

Everything now seems to have a potential for virtue signalling.

Last edited by MusicChick; 15.09.2019 at 14:23.
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  #135  
Old 15.09.2019, 14:09
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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If it's post birth, it's NOT abortion, it's infanticide.

Look up the meaning of the word 'abort'.

Tom
I do not think yacek nor notallthere need to look up anything.
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  #136  
Old 15.09.2019, 14:36
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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haven't heard of people being beaten up in the street or thrown out of the buildings or other atrocities here.
What a sheltered life you lead.
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  #137  
Old 15.09.2019, 14:38
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Neo- natal euthanasia by definition is not abortion.

I disagree that one should automatically equate the other, however.

I suspect the two authors of that article were either exercising a purely academic theory or, more likely, aiming for notoriety amingst their peers. Nothing to do with "current medical ethics". Good luck finding a doctor who will agree that killing a newborn just "because" is ethical.

This all feels dangerously like an argument to prevent women having control over their own bodies. Parts of the US are already closer to The Handmaid's Tale than is comfortable.
It seems more like they were aiming notoriety amongst their peers....not current medical ethics by any standards, thanks goodness for that. And good luck finding doctors willing to perform abortion on foetuses older than 3 or 4 months.

I think abortion is a very delicate subject. It should be really the least used and the last option, but still an option for all women.
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  #138  
Old 15.09.2019, 14:38
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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What a sheltered life you lead.
Oh, but it was London.
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  #139  
Old 15.09.2019, 14:40
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Oh, but it was London.
So that's alright then!
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  #140  
Old 15.09.2019, 14:43
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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So that's alright then!
It's not what I meant...
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