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Old 16.09.2019, 08:31
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

Well, I learned in history-classes that in Sparta, when a baby didn't look "right" it was thrown in a gorge.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparta...assical_Sparta



I always found this very cruel. But it was their way of genetic selection.


Is that any better or worse than having an abortion? Or is it the same, basically?



Nowadays, we spit in a tube and send it off to 23andme.

Or check the embryo for genetic anomalies.



(Putting aside the discussion on what constitutes a medically indicated abortion and what not).
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  #162  
Old 16.09.2019, 08:49
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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I'm not sure that's the case. While there is a distinction between pre and post natal in law, there's also the limits set for when abortion for healthy babies* is permissible and when not.

Most people I think would say that 9 months - 1 minute is not acceptable, but 2 months in is. Others would say that if the baby is viable outside the womb, then abortion is wrong. But if not viable, it's fine. The general opinion, it seems to me, is that the later it is, the more problematic it is.

Therefore, there is a continuum. With a lot of argument over where to set the line. Jacek believes it is 1 second after conception, it seems.

*I say "baby" rather than foetus because that's what generally used outside medical precision. Nobody says of a miscarriage "she lost her foetus".
Still, illegal abortions are considered a different crime from murder. Passports and social security numbers are never issued to foetuses. In most nations and cultures, a person only becomes a person at birth. This is the bit that Yacek is struggling to understand.
  #163  
Old 16.09.2019, 09:03
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

I find it incredibly amusing people who like to come across as liberals are only liberal as long as other peoples views match their own.

The guy is religious, so what?? lot of religions / religious people have the same views, ffs a large part of the USA hold exactly the same views, better all stop filling your cars with fuel from the middle east too.

He has different views to you, get over it.
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  #164  
Old 16.09.2019, 09:09
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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I find it incredibly amusing people who like to come across as liberals are only liberal as long as other peoples views match their own.

The guy is religious, so what?? lot of religions / religious people have the same views, ffs a large part of the USA hold exactly the same views, better all stop filling your cars with fuel from the middle east too.

He has different views to you, get over it.
I'm totally behind a robust public rebuttal to the expressed opinions of a figure rich and influential enough to enjoy a greater platform than most - I just think it's a bit shitty, self-serving, and - let's be blunt here - privileged to recommend that people punish his employees for having a gobshite for a boss.

I've worked for a few objectionable bosses in my time. I'm just glad that none of them was famous enough to make complete strangers want to make me lose my job over it.
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  #165  
Old 16.09.2019, 09:14
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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I'm totally behind a robust public rebuttal to the expressed opinions of a figure rich and influential enough to enjoy a greater platform than most - I just think it's a bit shitty, self-serving, and - let's be blunt here - privileged to recommend that people punish his employees for having a gobshite for a boss.

I've worked for a few objectionable bosses in my time. I'm just glad that none of them was famous enough to make complete strangers want to make me lose my job over it.
especially as they appear to treat their staff pretty well, pay more then other local employers and seem to have no issue at all employing any of the many local nationalities and religions
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  #166  
Old 16.09.2019, 09:28
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

I'll have to fuel my car tomorrow. I'm seriously concerned now as it will make me support anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist countries...
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  #167  
Old 16.09.2019, 09:43
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

There's a weird disparity in today's society where people are derided for calling out other people's off-colour attitudes and comments, but to look at it a different way, why do people (such as in this case) think that anyone is remotely interested in their opinions about abortion and homosexuality?

I mean, they make and sell chocolate, and that's all.

I find the comparisons with "well, if you're not buying chocolate at Läderach, you certainly shouldn't be refuelling your car with petrol from [insert country with questionable attitudes towards whatever punchbag-group(s) fires them up]" frankly a bit stupid and predictable. We had endless whataboutery from Loz in the past, which more deflected and derailed than anything else. Didn't work then, doesn't really work now.

The bottom line is that if you are a public figure and you feel the compulsion to shout loud about controversial stuff, you have to expect that an element of people will call you out on it (rightly or wrongly). The oldest advice is sometimes the best; if you can't say anything nice, shut TF up.
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  #168  
Old 16.09.2019, 10:00
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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There's a weird disparity in today's society where people are derided for calling out other people's off-colour attitudes and comments, but to look at it a different way, why do people (such as in this case) think that anyone is remotely interested in their opinions about abortion and homosexuality?

I mean, they make and sell chocolate, and that's all.

I find the comparisons with "well, if you're not buying chocolate at Läderach, you certainly shouldn't be refuelling your car with petrol from [insert country with questionable attitudes towards whatever punchbag-group(s) fires them up]" frankly a bit stupid and predictable. We had endless whataboutery from Loz in the past, which more deflected and derailed than anything else. Didn't work then, doesn't really work now.

The bottom line is that if you are a public figure and you feel the compulsion to shout loud about controversial stuff, you have to expect that an element of people will call you out on it (rightly or wrongly). The oldest advice is sometimes the best; if you can't say anything nice, shut TF up.
the point is for some reason this guy and his company are being singled out, there are much worse people out there running much bigger companies promoting and doing far worse things for a lot more money, yet op isn't mentioning them, yet because he's a white, middle aged christian it seems he's fair game, his views are nothing out of the ordinary <cough> catholic church <cough> it seems the only reason he's being attacked is because he supported an SVP politician.

So if you *must* be offended and boycott companies then go all in, boycott any whose ceo has committed any 'sin' against your sensibilities, or STFU!

Of course the Läderach family religious beliefs have never been a secret, so ask yourself why is suddenly become an issue??
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  #169  
Old 16.09.2019, 10:02
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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There's a weird disparity in today's society where people are derided for calling out other people's off-colour attitudes and comments, but to look at it a different way, why do people (such as in this case) think that anyone is remotely interested in their opinions about abortion and homosexuality?

I mean, they make and sell chocolate, and that's all.

I find the comparisons with "well, if you're not buying chocolate at Läderach, you certainly shouldn't be refuelling your car with petrol from [insert country with questionable attitudes towards whatever punchbag-group(s) fires them up]" frankly a bit stupid and predictable. We had endless whataboutery from Loz in the past, which more deflected and derailed than anything else. Didn't work then, doesn't really work now.

The bottom line is that if you are a public figure and you feel the compulsion to shout loud about controversial stuff, you have to expect that an element of people will call you out on it (rightly or wrongly). The oldest advice is sometimes the best; if you can't say anything nice, shut TF up.
Sandgrounder, thanks for writing an eloquent post summarizing the situation that I didn't get around to doing yet. To even compare this situation to filling up your car with petrol, as thought they are one and the same thing, is just a clear sign of lack of intelligence and common sense (though no surprise considering who wrote it). We can all chooser exactly where we put out money, and choosing not to buy chocolate Laderach is indeed a largely trivial effort on anyone's part, vs not filling their car up with the stuff required to make it actually function. Also laughable is the: "...but it happens elsewhere in the world, people have different views, get over it" spiel. It's the kind of ridiculous logic that just makes you scratch your head in wonder.

Openly anti-homosexual and anti-abortion views should always be opposed, and if this guy wants to make his views public then he should expect that there is a chance that people will take justifiable umbrage with it and not buy his products. For people to even suggest that by doing so we are intentionally penalizing his workforce is just absolute showboating, melodramatic bollocks. The workers only have their boss to blame, not the people who choose not to buy his chocolate.

If in the end this thread costs him even only a comparatively modest amount in sales I will consider it worthwhile.
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  #170  
Old 16.09.2019, 10:04
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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To even compare this situation to filling up your car with petrol, as thought they are one and the same thing, is just a clear sign of lack of intelligence and common sense (though no surprise considering who wrote it).
you're a fool
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  #171  
Old 16.09.2019, 10:10
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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you're a fool
I assure you that being called a fool by someone who appears to have the IQ only marginally higher than of a floret of broccoli, and a track history of repeatedly posting utterly risible things, is water off a ducks back.
  #172  
Old 16.09.2019, 10:12
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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I assure you that being called a fool by someone who appears to have the IQ only marginally higher than of a floret of broccoli, and a track history of repeatedly posting utterly risible things, is water off a ducks back.
clearly it was a flippant remark that seems to of hit your sensibilities, now run along and find something else to get offended by.
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  #173  
Old 16.09.2019, 10:12
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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the point is for some reason this guy and his company are being singled out, there are much worse people out there running much bigger companies promoting and doing far worse things for a lot more money, yet op isn't mentioning them, yet because he's a white, middle aged christian it seems he's fair game, his views are nothing out of the ordinary <cough> catholic church <cough> it seems the only reason he's being attacked is because he supported an SVP politician.
The reasons for calling out someone's (anyone's?) beliefs are usually many-fold. I can imagine one such example might be if you'd had an abortion under extremely difficult circumstances, after which you are terribly traumatised then some ham-fisted berk tars you with the same brush as someone who uses abortion as a form of contraception.

I could see how that would sting and you'd not want to waste any of your hard-earned dosh on anything that was associated with people with that attitude.

Who are we to judge?


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Of course the Läderach family religious beliefs have never been a secret, so ask yourself why is suddenly become an issue??
I don't know if it's all of a sudden. Surely it's the first time it has hit EF but I can't comment whether the views have never before appeared in public and been up for discussion.
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Old 16.09.2019, 10:15
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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The reasons for calling out someone's (anyone's?) beliefs are usually many-fold. I can imagine one such example might be if you'd had an abortion under extremely difficult circumstances, after which you are terribly traumatised then some ham-fisted berk tars you with the same brush as someone who uses abortion as a form of contraception.

I could see how that would sting and you'd not want to waste any of your hard-earned dosh on anything that was associated with people with that attitude.

Who are we to judge?




I don't know if it's all of a sudden. Surely it's the first time it has hit EF but I can't comment whether the views have never before appeared in public and been up for discussion.

again, those views are nothing special, the catholic church preaches them day in day out

and yes, you've hit the nail on the head, who are we to judge?? yet here we are, vilifying and judging a man for his religious beliefs, if he was anything but middle aged, white and christian this thread would be full of people calling out the racists.
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  #175  
Old 16.09.2019, 10:21
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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again, those views are nothing special, the catholic church preaches them day in day out

and yes, you've hit the nail on the head, who are we to judge?? yet here we are, vilifying and judging a man for his religious beliefs, if he was anything but middle aged, white and christian this thread would be full of people calling out the racists.
We are the consumers, we can judge whoever the **** we like, give our opinions and vote with our wallets. The fact you struggle to understand this concept may make you potentially the least intelligent person on this forum. Seriously.

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I don't know if it's all of a sudden. Surely it's the first time it has hit EF but I can't comment whether the views have never before appeared in public and been up for discussion.
Exactly, it's the first time it's come to my attention... or are some people too dim to realise that not everyone is going to be aware of every view of every business owner in the country?
  #176  
Old 16.09.2019, 10:24
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Still, illegal abortions are considered a different crime from murder. Passports and social security numbers are never issued to foetuses. In most nations and cultures, a person only becomes a person at birth. This is the bit that Yacek is struggling to understand.
It is interesting that in a modern society that did away with many culture based dogmas like women inferiority, slavery or by-birth class privilege (well, not yet everywhere in Europe) some of the enlightened representatives of such societies are religiously dogmatising other axioms - newly created ones as well - beyond any attempt of argument.

BTW: Abortion is all about reproductive rights of women and approximately zero of health reasons - it is enough to look at any stats regarding the reasons for it.
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Old 16.09.2019, 10:25
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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We are the consumers, we can judge whoever the **** we like, give our opinions and vote with our wallets. The fact you struggle to understand this concept may make you potentially the least intelligent person on this forum. Seriously.
LOL so very tolerant, would you prefer he kept his beliefs to himself then? would that make you feel better?? you can buy stuff from a company just so long as you don't know the owner is anti gay?

I struggle to see why you are singling out this company, make a list of all the other companies you boycott and the reason why.

try harder with the insults too, they are making a dull day quite amusing
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  #178  
Old 16.09.2019, 10:35
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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Sandgrounder, thanks for writing an eloquent post summarizing the situation that I didn't get around to doing yet. To even compare this situation to filling up your car with petrol, as thought they are one and the same thing, is just a clear sign of lack of intelligence and common sense (though no surprise considering who wrote it). We can all chooser exactly where we put out money, and choosing not to buy chocolate Laderach is indeed a largely trivial effort on anyone's part, vs not filling their car up with the stuff required to make it actually function. Also laughable is the: "...but it happens elsewhere in the world, people have different views, get over it" spiel. It's the kind of ridiculous logic that just makes you scratch your head in wonder.
That's an honor if you write it

It's all about being consequent in your views. You are just behaving like a sjw.
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Old 16.09.2019, 10:36
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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again, those views are nothing special, the catholic church preaches them day in day out
I'd say that's their job. I'm not a Catholic (nor subscribe to any religion for that matter) so they can spout all they want.

Läderach is just a business man. Don't know why he (and other business leaders) can't just keep their private and irrelevant opinions to themselves. Unless they are using their public position to their advantage, maybe? But let's not go there.

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and yes, you've hit the nail on the head, who are we to judge?? yet here we are, vilifying and judging a man for his religious beliefs, if he was anything but middle aged, white and christian this thread would be full of people calling out the racists.
Well, I did try very hard not to come across as judgmental on either side. I was just looking for reasons why people in the public eye feel the need to chuck out irrelevant opinions. (Irrelevant as in not relevant to their business)

I've got opinions on all sorts of stuff; some of it might make your hair curl! But I don't put it out there in the public domain because I try to treat others how I would like to be treated and not go out of my way to hurt people. Oh, and I'm not a public figure with a platform either...

Having said that, in a much earlier post, I mentioned that at least it's not as bad as those bakers who refuse to bake and sell cakes to [insert punch-bag minority du jour] because of their beliefs.

Clearly Läderach, in the actual business part of his business, is all inclusive staff- and client-wise.
  #180  
Old 16.09.2019, 10:36
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Re: Laderach (Läderach)... run by anti-gay and anti-abortion religious fundamentalist

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LOL so very tolerant, would you prefer he kept his beliefs to himself then? would that make you feel better?? you can buy stuff from a company just so long as you don't know the owner is anti gay?
Why should I be "tolerant" of people who openly oppose homosexuality? Say rape victims shouldn't be allowed abortions? Again, you just don't seem to get it. He is free to voice his opinions, and I am free to post threads like this. You do realise that the local media also wrote articles on it clearly stating that his comments have prompted outrage... right?

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I struggle to see why you are singling out this company, make a list of all the other companies you boycott and the reason why.
Tell me some more local companies where the owners think the same and I'll make threads about them too.
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