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  #21  
Old 07.11.2019, 11:38
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

Hmmm.... seems this was discussed last year as well but the focus was on Appenzell.

https://www.srf.ch/news/regional/ost...rotzdem-gejagt
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  #22  
Old 07.11.2019, 12:02
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

''Lastly, they need to cull 450 annually in VS (and 500 in GR), so one way or other they will be hunted and shot.''

as said by others- a proper cull takes the oldest and weakest, and the surplus of young animals. It never ever takes the biggest, strongest, healthiest - never. But that is where the money is for trophies.
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  #23  
Old 07.11.2019, 12:53
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

Re: culling the oldest males vs biggest horns for trophies.

The oldest males typically have the biggest horns. There's some individual variation (genetics + nutrition) but it's actually dwarfed by the age correlation. In other words the absolute longest horns in a herd may not belong to the absolute oldest individual but he's likely to be one of the oldest.

(Makes sense if you think about it, the horns don't get shed and they continue to grow through the animal's life: it's not like they grow to a certain age then shrink again.)
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  #24  
Old 07.11.2019, 14:06
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

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Does it really matter how much, or to whom, they pay?



Is it really good for the population to 'cull' the healthiest adult males? Studies seem to show that average animal size isn't suffering as a result, but that's not all there is to it.

Better by far, surely, to cull the old and weak, and/or the excess young, and very tasty, population? Meat isn't murder, but trophy hunting seems to many to be close.
yes. the whole point is to kill the top dog to allow other males to mate and increase diversity in the gene pool.

maybe before everybody gets in a tizzy of petition signing and pearl clutching, they should consider whether they know more than diddly squat about the subject and whether, in fact, the people who are making these rules are the experts who know a truckload more about this than a bunch of internet armchair activists looking for the next issue to virtue signal on.
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  #25  
Old 07.11.2019, 19:10
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

And your qualifications are ?

I've talked to many experienced hunters- who are all really not happy with this at all. I am not anti hunting- this is not hunting- just massacre for trophies.
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  #26  
Old 07.11.2019, 19:17
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

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this is not hunting- just massacre for trophies.
Well, it's been allowed for the past 40 years, so why are people complaining about it now?

Did they read about it on The Local?

Tom
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  #27  
Old 07.11.2019, 19:47
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

Documentary on RTS

view-source:https://www.rts.ch/info/regions/vala...D8I0WsmK0Z8uhI
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  #28  
Old 07.11.2019, 19:49
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

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Yes, that I already read and is where I learnt that this has been the case for 40 years:

"on n'a pas attendu l'émission Mise au Point pour se pencher sur ce dossier vieux de plus de 40 ans"

Tom
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  #29  
Old 07.11.2019, 19:52
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

Bloody hell! Even with all of her fancy equipment she isn’t a very good shot. How can they cause such suffering.

Pure evil.
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  #30  
Old 07.11.2019, 20:05
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

Perhaps watch both carefully before responding?

The Deputy clearly says that the current situation does not match current attitudes and ethics. Discussions have been taking place with all parties since april- before the documentary. Local hunters are trained properly and thoroughly and are passionate, ethical and respectful about nature and wildlife. They spend a lot of time searching the animals, observing for a long time to decide which should be culled. Totally unlike trophy hunters who are presented with animals they can shoot from short distance.

Moreover, backhanders and tips are totally illegal. Culling is necessary, but client culling for trophies will be stopped- and the cull done by local hunters with the wildlife wardens- in the proper and respectful tradition and with people who are able to shoot and kill, not maim and torture

Last edited by Odile; 07.11.2019 at 21:06.
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  #31  
Old 07.11.2019, 21:45
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

Ibex are just glorified goats. Do we really need to care about this? Let me know when the Alpine Dahu become endangered and then I'll sign the petition.
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  #32  
Old 07.11.2019, 21:56
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

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Ibex are just glorified goats.
Mammuts were just glorified elephants.
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  #33  
Old 08.11.2019, 07:48
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

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Does it really matter how much, or to whom, they pay?
Ah. The brexit bus argument!
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  #34  
Old 08.11.2019, 08:35
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

Quote:
Does it really matter how much, or to whom, they pay?
Better that they pay the canton for the privilege, than the canton have to pay someone to do it.

Tom

Last edited by st2lemans; 08.11.2019 at 10:47.
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  #35  
Old 08.11.2019, 12:01
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

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yes. the whole point is to kill the top dog to allow other males to mate and increase diversity in the gene pool.

maybe before everybody gets in a tizzy of petition signing and pearl clutching, they should consider whether they know more than diddly squat about the subject and whether, in fact, the people who are making these rules are the experts who know a truckload more about this than a bunch of internet armchair activists looking for the next issue to virtue signal on.
Hmmm, maybe. I love your tone btw. Some of the people discussing this subject though have more expertise than you're willing to give them credit for.
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  #36  
Old 08.11.2019, 12:25
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

I think hunting is fine (not trophy hunting mind you) but the reason I think this is so egregious is that if you want to hunt in Switzerland, you have to spend years or training and thousands of francs to get your Jagdschein, and in this case any twerp with money can bypass these requirements.
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  #37  
Old 08.11.2019, 14:24
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

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I think hunting is fine (not trophy hunting mind you) but the reason I think this is so egregious is that if you want to hunt in Switzerland, you have to spend years or training and thousands of francs to get your Jagdschein, and in this case any twerp with money can bypass these requirements.
Precisely.

How about if they change the system like that:

- guy(or girl) with money pays up his Ibex trophy upfront
- authorized hunter shoots the Ibex and gives guy with money his horns trophy

Would that work?

No I don't think so - nobody will pay anywhere near 20k for that

Case closed.
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  #38  
Old 08.11.2019, 14:29
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

Certainly got the imaginations and spoofs going:

https://www.facebook.com/120minutes....1825058943821/

again, good practice for you Valaisan accent
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  #39  
Old 08.11.2019, 14:31
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

I think what disturbs me the most is that these people want to stick up the head of a noble beast on their wall and brag about how brave and skillful they were in being able to shoot it. Why does the biggest set of horns get prized the most? (rhetorical, but answers relating to penis size will be acceptable). Hear me roar!
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  #40  
Old 08.11.2019, 16:40
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

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I think what disturbs me the most is that these people want to stick up the head of a noble beast on their wall and brag about how brave and skillful they were in being able to shoot it. Why does the biggest set of horns get prized the most? (rhetorical, but answers relating to penis size will be acceptable). Hear me roar!
The same might be asked why people pay exorbitant amounts of money to go and watch 22 millionaires chase a ball around every Saturday. Or why people drive hundreds of miles to go and park in a field with dozens of other people who have the same car as they do. Hobbies and sport rarely make sense to those that don't participate in them.
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