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  #101  
Old 09.11.2019, 14:53
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

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Which is why we need to eat a lot less meat - to make it more sustainable- simple enough. On land which is not much good for anything else than growing good grass, naturally, like huge parts of Switzerland.

Good quality, well fed naturally, good husbandry, no antibiotics unless short-term on individual basis, etc- and killed locally, short transport and in well inspected and controlled abbatoirs, where respect for the animals is instilled right from the start.
I prefer Italian beef and veal to Swiss. Better quality and taste.

I prefer Swiss pork and chicken, however.

Tom
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  #102  
Old 09.11.2019, 14:55
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

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Which is why we need to eat a lot less meat - to make it more sustainable- simple enough. On land which is not much good for anything else than growing good grass, naturally, like huge parts of Switzerland.

Good quality, well fed naturally, good husbandry, no antibiotics unless short-term on individual basis, etc- and killed locally, short transport and in well inspected and controlled abbatoirs, where respect for the animals is instilled right from the start.
surely it'd be better to just eat an Ibex
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  #103  
Old 09.11.2019, 15:45
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

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I was shocked to see on the beeb that two Swiss cantons allow trophy hunting of ibex and chamois. I'm no greenie, but it doesn't seem right to me.

Hunting as a way to maintain a stable population and provide income from meat is one thing, but letting folks shoot the biggest males just to get their "trophy" goes way beyond my view of acceptable.

Seems that the Swiss WWF are trying to raise it in a referendum - no idea how that's going so far though.
I am feeling quite sick. Only the sick people on the Planet would unfortunately push this through. Unfortunately those people do make the rules
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  #104  
Old 09.11.2019, 16:01
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

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Rubbish.

Tom
As well thought out and fact supported a post as we've come to expect TT
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  #105  
Old 09.11.2019, 16:03
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

So it seems that Iíve been banned. And thatís Ok with mŽ
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  #106  
Old 09.11.2019, 16:05
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

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So it seems that Iíve been banned. And thatís Ok with mŽ
Hmm
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  #107  
Old 09.11.2019, 17:35
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

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So it seems that Iíve been banned. And thatís Ok with mŽ
Banned from what?
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  #108  
Old 09.11.2019, 18:05
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

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Banned from what?
From hunting ibex.

Tom
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  #109  
Old 09.11.2019, 18:06
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

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I am feeling quite sick. Only the sick people on the Planet would unfortunately push this through. Unfortunately those people do make the rules
Did make the rules.

They are long dead, as it is an old law from over 40 years ago.

Tom
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  #110  
Old 09.11.2019, 18:53
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

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I didn't know they are such a problem for certain areas in CH, as I thought there's (practically) no wild animal life here. At least not compared to my reference point(s). My issue was more related to the who decided/decides that and how is it done, as the way to hell is paved with "good" intentions..
Hunting, to the extent a species isn't explicitly covered by federal regulations, is a Cantonal matter, as you certainly have realised by now. As such "here" WRT to your own location (which you say is CH) isn't specific enough.

Once wildlife doesn't run from humans it's not (pure) wildlife any more. Thus lack of sightings may well be meaningless.
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  #111  
Old 09.11.2019, 19:04
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

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there's (practically) no wild animal life here.
What are you talking about?

Wild boar and deer overpopulation is a BIG problem around here, as there are (almost) no predators.

Boars do a lot of damage, deer eat our plants, etc.

I have seen them, and have them on video from some wildlife cams we have.

Tom
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  #112  
Old 09.11.2019, 19:22
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

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Um... I was under the impression vegetarians don't do the animal eating thing. Unless milking a cow involves more blood than I realised.
Yup. You should probably change your information sources if you believe no animals were killed for your cheese fondue.

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Old animals die, that's life. There is one reason only why male calves are slaughtered - using the UK as an example, it costs a tenner to kill them or £30 to sell on. I think we can both see the simple solution here.
Do you mean sell them on for meat?

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I think realistically most sensible people, including yourself, admit that meat consumption has to come way down, and extremely quickly.
Make your mind up.
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  #113  
Old 09.11.2019, 20:13
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

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Yup. You should probably change your information sources if you believe no animals were killed for your cheese fondue.
You're assuming I eat cheese. I have milked a cow, however. No death was involved.
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  #114  
Old 09.11.2019, 20:18
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

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The conflation of vegetarians and vegans must be deliberate, one feels.

Sigh.

The worldís most populous country is already 1/3 veggie anyway, so thereís hope!
Thats just because they are poor & can't afford meat, 2/3 of the worlds population don't brush their teeth for the same reason.
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  #115  
Old 09.11.2019, 20:34
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

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You're assuming I eat cheese. I have milked a cow, however. No death was involved.
I think I've already written this once today. I'll try again.

For cows to continue to lactate with maximum efficiency of milk yield , they need to be got pregnant 3 months after last giving birth.
This means they give birth once a year.
If a male calf is born, it's no good to the dairy herd and is usually destroyed.

That's a dead animal. In my book that means death is involved.

My sister used to have a dairy herd. It's difficult to make money from milk when people only pay less than a pound a litre (the farmer only gets 30 pence a litre).

If you don't want animal deaths, then become a vegan.

Regarding the argument about eating less meat - my family and I already do that. I've only eaten 100g all week.
Vegan and vegetarian meals also form part of our diet.
We only eat what we need to too. None of use are obese or overweight.

If people just ate what they needed to and didn't over-consume, that would reduce the amount of meat we all eat by a massive amount.
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  #116  
Old 09.11.2019, 21:21
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

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Hunting, to the extent a species isn't explicitly covered by federal regulations, is a Cantonal matter, as you certainly have realised by now. As such "here" WRT to your own location (which you say is CH) isn't specific enough.

Once wildlife doesn't run from humans it's not (pure) wildlife any more. Thus lack of sightings may well be meaningless.
Very vague, a cantonal matter... If you must know - canton Zurich, as I've specified hundreds of times by now. lol Though thinking to move to a tax friendlier one pretty soon.

No, I haven't seen a single deer here. I know there are, I mean there must be, but they hide very carefully.

So, CH has a problem with the wildlife. OK, understood. I suppose there won't be a problem pretty soon, case solved.

Last edited by greenmount; 09.11.2019 at 21:39.
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  #117  
Old 09.11.2019, 22:10
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

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Very vague, a cantonal matter... If you must know - canton Zurich, as I've specified hundreds of times by now. lol Though thinking to move to a tax friendlier one pretty soon.
Some information sticks, some doesn't.
(and if I was in a gambling mood I'd take you up on those "hundreds of times")
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No, I haven't seen a single deer here. I know there are, I mean there must be, but they hide very carefully.
This thread is on ibex. They live above the "Waldgrenze", i.e. above forestable areas, with the lower boundary like 2'500-2'800m above sea level around here. Obviously ZŁrich Canton doesn't qualify.
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So OK, CH has a problem with the wildlife. OK, understood. I suppose there won't be a problem pretty soon, case solved.
Yes, CH is overrun by wildlife. Inundated even.

Fortunately though, not all households are afflicted by ibex, only those above the 2nd floor as ibex naturally want to climb. Obviously that's why one of three households owns a firearm. It's also the reason why single-family homes are all the rage nowadays - fortunately we no longer build houses on stiltseses.
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  #118  
Old 09.11.2019, 22:24
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

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I think I've already written this once today. I'll try again.

For cows to continue to lactate with maximum efficiency of milk yield , they need to be got pregnant 3 months after last giving birth.
This means they give birth once a year.
If a male calf is born, it's no good to the dairy herd and is usually destroyed.

That's a dead animal. In my book that means death is involved.
Furthermore, the mother cow needs to be killed at age 4-5 (after 2-3 births, roughly) to keep the population stable.
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  #119  
Old 09.11.2019, 22:35
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

I live next to 2 dairy farms. The sound of cows screaming and crying for days when their calf is taken straight after birth - is not for the faint hearted, for sure. 1 farmer takes the calf immediately after birth and raises them in the barn next door to the cows. Close proximity 'helps' with cows producing more milk. The other let's the cows keep the calf for a short time- to sell the veal 'under the mother' as he gets much better money for this.

And yes, I will own up to the hypocrisy myself, thanks- as I still eat cheese, have milk on cereal and eat yogurt.

Last edited by Odile; 09.11.2019 at 23:22.
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  #120  
Old 09.11.2019, 23:22
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Re: Ibex hunting in CH

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No, I haven't seen a single deer here. I know there are, I mean there must be, but they hide very carefully.

.
I used to see deer almost every time I went running when I lived in Kanton Zurich.

Once I saw a whole wild herd.

If you want to see them though, you need to get up quite early.

I saw a badger the other week - the first I have seen here - scampering along the high street.
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