English Forum Switzerland

English Forum Switzerland (https://www.englishforum.ch/forum.php)
-   Swiss politics/news (https://www.englishforum.ch/swiss-politics-news/)
-   -   Ibex hunting in CH (https://www.englishforum.ch/swiss-politics-news/295046-ibex-hunting-ch.html)

Ace1 06.11.2019 15:27

Ibex hunting in CH
 
I was shocked to see on the beeb that two Swiss cantons allow trophy hunting of ibex and chamois. I'm no greenie, but it doesn't seem right to me.

Hunting as a way to maintain a stable population and provide income from meat is one thing, but letting folks shoot the biggest males just to get their "trophy" goes way beyond my view of acceptable.

Seems that the Swiss WWF are trying to raise it in a referendum - no idea how that's going so far though.

bowlie 06.11.2019 15:39

Re: Ibex hunting in CH
 
Where do I sign?

swissotter 06.11.2019 15:39

Re: Ibex hunting in CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace1 (Post 3117783)
I was shocked to see on the beeb that two Swiss cantons allow trophy hunting of ibex and chamois. I'm no greenie, but it doesn't seem right to me.

Hunting as a way to maintain a stable population and provide income from meat is one thing, but letting folks shoot the biggest males just to get their "trophy" goes way beyond my view of acceptable.

Seems that the Swiss WWF are trying to raise it in a referendum - no idea how that's going so far though.


Just saw this article too - was also wondering the same thing, i've only seen the ibex in the zoo in switzerland. I guess if they need to control the numbers then fair enough but I also find it suprising that they can't just be left alone, given there is plenty of grounds around Graubunden/ Valais no?
Anyway, it is also the issue of the license , paying CHF13,000 to be allowed to trophy hunt one? why so high?

Odile 06.11.2019 15:48

Re: Ibex hunting in CH
 
Yep, disgusting- was really shocked at this. We complain about canned hunting for trophies in Africa and elsewhere- and then it happens right under our nose- and with dodgy backhanders for the Hunting wildlife guards too. Lured from France and Italy where they are protected, by providing them with essential salt and shot at close range. The best, biggest, strongest breeding males that ensure the next generations- as longest horns go up to 30.000.- Hunting to control numbers never picks on the strongest and best specimen for breeding, but the old and younger males. But the big money is in the largest horns- nothing to do with hunting in the 'normal' sense.

Please sign and share the petition. Over 30000 have signed in 2 days

https://www.change.org/p/l-%C3%A9tat...805194-10%3Av2

st2lemans 06.11.2019 15:51

Re: Ibex hunting in CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace1 (Post 3117783)
I was shocked to see on the beeb that two Swiss cantons allow trophy hunting of ibex and chamois.

Only one in reality (VS).

In the other (GR), it's strictly controlled, and only for locals.

Re-read the article.

Tom

John_H 06.11.2019 16:16

Re: Ibex hunting in CH
 
first time I ever 'signed' a petition..

But what are people giving money for on there??

Odile 06.11.2019 16:33

Re: Ibex hunting in CH
 
A spoof- on the Valais hunters- always been a bit 'different' - good luck with the accent ;)

https://www.facebook.com/120minutes....7094321065325/

Cherub 06.11.2019 19:27

Re: Ibex hunting in CH
 
In Malta they have a controversial season every year where they shoot songbirds. Worst part is they put a sticky substance on nets so the birds stick to it and can't escape. They justify it by saying it's part of Maltese culture to do this, but it's pretty horrible.

meloncollie 06.11.2019 19:52

Re: Ibex hunting in CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Odile (Post 3117789)

Odile, are non-citizens/non residents allowed to sign?

bowlie 06.11.2019 20:06

Re: Ibex hunting in CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by meloncollie (Post 3117850)
Odile, are non-citizens/non residents allowed to sign?

This is a change dot org petition. Anyone can sign, from anywhere. Equally it has no standing in law. A referendum won’t be raised as only Swiss Citizens can call for one.

Ace1 06.11.2019 21:25

Re: Ibex hunting in CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Odile (Post 3117801)
A spoof- on the Valais hunters- always been a bit 'different' - good luck with the accent ;)

https://www.facebook.com/120minutes....7094321065325/

Excellent. Can't say I know any hunters down there but it certainly rings true with the French I one iI know around here (up in Alsace today).

The accent wasn't too bad once I'd got my ear in, although I confess I thought they were speaking German for the first couple of sentences.

Odile 06.11.2019 23:57

Re: Ibex hunting in CH
 
I could not hunt myself- but I will respect a good hunter.

But this is not hunting, not to balance herds, not to eat- just for trophies. Old Ibex tastes disgusting- they leave carcasses behind :msnmad: just sick.

TonyClifton 07.11.2019 08:29

Re: Ibex hunting in CH
 
I think the biggest issue non-hunters have with hunting is that most people who’ve never hunted can’t fathom the fact that it is both fun and a skill. The Alpine Ibex is a magnificent beast that I’ve been lucky enough to see in the wild on more than one occasion. It is also one that I myself would never dream of shooting.

The issue is that while there are people there will be hunters. If this is banned then it won’t stop Ibex getting shot, it would only likely increase the amounts of illegal hunting activity. I would much prefer that the few Ibex that are shot are done so in a heavily regulated environment that provides money for the canton.

st2lemans 07.11.2019 09:16

Re: Ibex hunting in CH
 
The petition falsely claims that they pay CHF 20k to the canton, when in fact they pay CHF 13k, and only applies to VS and not GR.

Also, this law has been in place for 40 years, so it's not exactly something recent.

Lastly, they need to cull 450 annually in VS (and 500 in GR), so one way or other they will be hunted and shot.

Tom

Ace1 07.11.2019 09:25

Re: Ibex hunting in CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by st2lemans (Post 3117961)
The petition falsely claims that they pay CHF 20k to the canton, when in fact they pay CHF 13k, and only applies to VS and not GR.

Does it really matter how much, or to whom, they pay?

Quote:

Originally Posted by st2lemans (Post 3117961)
Lastly, they need to cull 450 annually in VS (and 500 in GR), so one way or other they will be hunted and shot.

Is it really good for the population to 'cull' the healthiest adult males? Studies seem to show that average animal size isn't suffering as a result, but that's not all there is to it.

Better by far, surely, to cull the old and weak, and/or the excess young, and very tasty, population? Meat isn't murder, but trophy hunting seems to many to be close.

bowlie 07.11.2019 09:55

Re: Ibex hunting in CH
 
Yes, but the Ibex is an endangered species. If they need culling that is a different story. They should be protected and not have their deaths sold to the highest bidder.

Do these ‘hunters harvest anything other than the horns? No, I didn’t think so.

st2lemans 07.11.2019 10:04

Re: Ibex hunting in CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace1 (Post 3117966)
Is it really good for the population to 'cull' the healthiest adult males?

That not what they do. :rolleyes:

From the BBC article: ""If you kill the wrong animal you pay a fine and get nothing, and you could lose your licence."

In Graubünden, he says, you cannot shoot a male unless you have first shot a female - and the hunting window is just two to three weeks to do so."

From RTS: "Mais le conseiller d'Etat a tenu également à rappeler que les bouquetins doivent être régulés. Alors qu'ils étaient 3000 il y a 20 ans, ils sont plus de 5000 actuellement. "Il conviendra de toute façon de prélever 450 têtes par année. Une fois les tirs clients supprimés, ce sont des chasseurs ou des gardes-faune qui le feront dans le respect de l'animal"."

"But the state councilor reiterated that the ibex must be controlled. While there were 3000 20 years ago, now there are more than 5000. "It would be necessary in any case to cull 450 head per year. Once you supress paying clients, it will be hunters or game wardens who will need to do it.""

Tom

FrankZappa 07.11.2019 10:23

Re: Ibex hunting in CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bowlie (Post 3117970)
Yes, but the Ibex is an endangered species. If they need culling that is a different story. They should be protected and not have their deaths sold to the highest bidder.

Do these ‘hunters harvest anything other than the horns? No, I didn’t think so.

The alpine ibex is not endangered. It's "of least concern", the best status, in the Red Book, see:

https://www.iucnredlist.org/species/42397/10695445

When you go walking in the Grand Paradis national park, you have to practically kick the b*ggers off the path, where they're having a nice rest.

Ace1 07.11.2019 10:25

Re: Ibex hunting in CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by st2lemans (Post 3117973)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace1

Is it really good for the population to 'cull' the healthiest adult males?That not what they do. :rolleyes:

From the BBC article: ""If you kill the wrong animal you pay a fine and get nothing, and you could lose your licence."

In Graubünden, he says, you cannot shoot a male unless you have first shot a female - and the hunting window is just two to three weeks to do so."

Yes, we can all read. So in order to kill the healthy adult male with the biggest horns they have to kill a female first. In Graubunden. Where you say this isn't an issue anyway, as it's only in Valais that the paid-for trophy hunting exists.

So that's all right then.

Chuff 07.11.2019 11:13

Re: Ibex hunting in CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace1 (Post 3117783)
Hunting as a way to maintain a stable population and provide income from meat is one thing, but letting folks shoot the biggest males just to get their "trophy" goes way beyond my view of acceptable.

The irony being that shooting the biggest makes can only weaken the gene pool. :msncrazy:


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 18:23.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0