Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 26.11.2019, 16:57
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 10,798
Groaned at 83 Times in 74 Posts
Thanked 16,341 Times in 7,265 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Primary school bans certain Christmas Carols

Baby, it's cold outside. Listen to the forum roar. Our mods will start to worry

The primary school Mattschulhaus in Wil SG banned "Go Tell It on the Mountain", "Fröhliche Weihnacht überall", and "S grööschte Gschänk" from its advent festive and performances.

https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz...story/11418529

https://www.20min.ch/schweiz/news/st...feier-30338393

It is said that in the previous two years two parents have raised objections during the performances (the news articles notes that at least in the previous year the objecting parent was not of the Islam faith. Religious affiliation of the other parent is not stated).

Although, the articles makes a strong connection between the Christian tradition and objection by Islamist and Secularist it is actually not known why those three particular songs were banned. From the list of approved songs it is only known that at least "Stille Nacht (Silent Night)" is on it.
__________________
"I think so, Brain. But where are we going to find a gallon of whip cream and three yards of lederhosen at this time of night? Narf!"
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #2  
Old 26.11.2019, 17:47
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 11,271
Groaned at 170 Times in 147 Posts
Thanked 16,030 Times in 6,514 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Primary school bans certain Christmas Carols

Silent night doesn't contain the word Jesus which, outside of Hollywood films as an expletive, is offensive?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 26.11.2019, 18:15
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 4,403
Groaned at 118 Times in 101 Posts
Thanked 5,242 Times in 2,478 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Primary school bans certain Christmas Carols

As long as they did not ban the Fairytale Of New York they'll be grand. I nearly manager to get my daughter's school to sing it one year, my little proposal was going well until my daughter was asked to explain what a faggot was, it seems the teacher's dictionary did not make sense - 'a bundle of sticks bound together as fuel'.... it was down hill after that...

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Jim2007 for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 26.11.2019, 18:30
Cherub's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Baselstadt
Posts: 208
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 242 Times in 98 Posts
Cherub has earned the respect of manyCherub has earned the respect of manyCherub has earned the respect of many
Re: Primary school bans certain Christmas Carols

Where I come from a faggot is an old bag who spreads tittle tattle and generally rubs people up the wrong way
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 26.11.2019, 19:20
Dougal's Breakfast's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 18,281
Groaned at 1,126 Times in 875 Posts
Thanked 49,844 Times in 15,371 Posts
Dougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Primary school bans certain Christmas Carols

Quote:
View Post
Baby, it's cold outside. Listen to the forum roar. Our mods will start to worry

The primary school Mattschulhaus in Wil SG banned "Go Tell It on the Mountain", "Fröhliche Weihnacht überall", and "S grööschte Gschänk" from its advent festive and performances.

https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz...story/11418529

https://www.20min.ch/schweiz/news/st...feier-30338393

It is said that in the previous two years two parents have raised objections during the performances (the news articles notes that at least in the previous year the objecting parent was not of the Islam faith. Religious affiliation of the other parent is not stated).

Although, the articles makes a strong connection between the Christian tradition and objection by Islamist and Secularist it is actually not known why those three particular songs were banned. From the list of approved songs it is only known that at least "Stille Nacht (Silent Night)" is on it.
Seems reasonable. It's a bit unfair to expect non-Christian kids to sing songs about Jesus.

Sorry. Did I just kill the thread?
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Dougal's Breakfast for this useful post:
The following 4 users groan at Dougal's Breakfast for this post:
  #6  
Old 26.11.2019, 19:25
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 13,943
Groaned at 439 Times in 346 Posts
Thanked 19,044 Times in 7,985 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Primary school bans certain Christmas Carols

Couldn't they leave the Jesus carols to the end and just send home the kids who didn't want to sing them?
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 26.11.2019, 19:32
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 27,502
Groaned at 1,723 Times in 1,313 Posts
Thanked 31,902 Times in 15,264 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Primary school bans certain Christmas Carols

Quote:
View Post
Seems reasonable. It's a bit unfair to expect non-Christian kids to sing songs about Jesus.
I'm not christian, my kids neither, yet none of us have a problem with it.

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 11 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 26.11.2019, 19:36
Dougal's Breakfast's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 18,281
Groaned at 1,126 Times in 875 Posts
Thanked 49,844 Times in 15,371 Posts
Dougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Primary school bans certain Christmas Carols

Quote:
View Post
I'm not christian, my kids neither, yet none of us have a problem with it.

Tom
Bully for you.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Dougal's Breakfast for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 26.11.2019, 19:44
Dougal's Breakfast's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 18,281
Groaned at 1,126 Times in 875 Posts
Thanked 49,844 Times in 15,371 Posts
Dougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Primary school bans certain Christmas Carols

Quote:
View Post
Couldn't they leave the Jesus carols to the end and just send home the kids who didn't want to sing them?
Easier just to choose a few secular songs from the several thousand million that are available at this time of year.

If people want to sing about Jesus, they can do it at church, at home, in the street, at the top of a mountain, wherever.

I'm not seeing a problem here.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Dougal's Breakfast for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 26.11.2019, 19:47
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 10,798
Groaned at 83 Times in 74 Posts
Thanked 16,341 Times in 7,265 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Primary school bans certain Christmas Carols

But what if the song is about Jesus the gardener decorating the lawn for the holiday season?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 26.11.2019, 19:49
Dougal's Breakfast's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 18,281
Groaned at 1,126 Times in 875 Posts
Thanked 49,844 Times in 15,371 Posts
Dougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Primary school bans certain Christmas Carols

Quote:
View Post
But what if the song is about Jesus the gardener decorating the lawn for the holiday season?
Wasn't Jesus the gardener part of the Easter story?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Dougal's Breakfast for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 26.11.2019, 19:56
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 9,828
Groaned at 139 Times in 118 Posts
Thanked 10,518 Times in 5,593 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Primary school bans certain Christmas Carols

Quote:
View Post
Baby, it's cold outside. Listen to the forum roar. Our mods will start to worry

The primary school Mattschulhaus in Wil SG banned "Go Tell It on the Mountain", "Fröhliche Weihnacht überall", and "S grööschte Gschänk" from its advent festive and performances.

https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz...story/11418529

https://www.20min.ch/schweiz/news/st...feier-30338393

It is said that in the previous two years two parents have raised objections during the performances (the news articles notes that at least in the previous year the objecting parent was not of the Islam faith. Religious affiliation of the other parent is not stated).

Although, the articles makes a strong connection between the Christian tradition and objection by Islamist and Secularist it is actually not known why those three particular songs were banned. From the list of approved songs it is only known that at least "Stille Nacht (Silent Night)" is on it.
What BS! And as it's not a private school, I'm not even sure banning such things is legal.

<<«Auch weitere Beiträge für die Weihnachtsfeier müssen so gestaltet sein, dass sich alle Kulturen angesprochen fühlen können.»>> (Also further contributions to the Christmas festivities must be designed in a manner that other cultures can feel addressed)
That is pc taken wrongly once again. It's a Christian celebration, nobody else needs to feel addressed. Anyone none Christian who attends such a celebration probably wants to see what it's all about.

The point that is missed here is: There should be no religious celebration in state school here at all!

Any Christmas gathering should be organized by private groups or people, participating is logically one's own choice.


Seriously, I'm just waiting for the day they have a Bach concert somewhere and leave out the notes f-sharp and g-sharp because some cultures don't like these tones.
__________________
never ever make assumptions
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank curley for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 26.11.2019, 19:59
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 5,576
Groaned at 50 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 7,543 Times in 3,146 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Primary school bans certain Christmas Carols

From the article in 20 Minutes, linked to by aSwissInTheUS:

Islamische Organisationen haben nichts gegen Weihnachtslieder
Erstaunt reagieren Muslime in der Schweiz. Farhad Afshar, Präsident der Koordination Islamischer Organisationen Schweiz, ermuntert die Schulen, an den christlichen Liedern festzuhalten: «Aus unserer Sicht ist es sehr bedauerlich, wenn in einem christlichen Land keine christlichen Lieder mehr gesungen werden.»


Islamic Organisation have nothing against Chirstmas Songs
Muslims in Switzerland have reacted with surprise. Farhad Afshar, president of the Coordination of Islamic Organisations in Switzerland, encouraged schools to uphold the Christian songs: "From our perspective, it is most regretable when, in a Christian country, it is no longer allowed to sing Christian songs."
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 26.11.2019, 20:04
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 10,798
Groaned at 83 Times in 74 Posts
Thanked 16,341 Times in 7,265 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Primary school bans certain Christmas Carols

Quote:
View Post
Silent night doesn't contain the word Jesus which, outside of Hollywood films as an expletive, is offensive?
8 times in the original Version

Weyhnachts-Lied - Gustav Schreck

Stille Nacht! Heilige Nacht!
Alles schläft. Einsam wacht
Nur das traute heilige Paar.
Holder Knab’ im lockigten Haar,
Schlafe in himmlischer Ruh!
Schlafe in himmlischer Ruh!

Stille Nacht! Heilige Nacht!
Gottes Sohn! O! wie lacht
Lieb’ aus Deinem göttlichen Mund,
Da uns schlägt die rettende Stund’.
Jesus! in Deiner Geburt!
Jesus! in Deiner Geburt!

Stille Nacht! Heilige Nacht!
Die der Welt Heil gebracht,
Aus des Himmels goldenen Höh’n
Uns der Gnade Fülle läßt seh’n
Jesum in Menschengestalt!
Jesum in Menschengestalt!

Stille Nacht! Heilige Nacht!
Wo sich heut alle Macht
Väterlicher Liebe ergoß
Und als Bruder huldvoll umschloß
Jesus die Völker der Welt!
Jesus die Völker der Welt!

Stille Nacht! Heilige Nacht!
Lange schon uns bedacht,
Als der Herr vom Grimme befreit,
In der Väter urgrauer Zeit
Aller Welt Schonung verhieß!
Aller Welt Schonung verhieß!

Stille Nacht! Heilige Nacht!
Hirten erst kundgemacht
Durch der Engel „Hallelujah!“
Tönt es laut bei Ferne und Nah:
„Jesus der Retter ist da!“
„Jesus der Retter ist da!“
__________________
"I think so, Brain. But where are we going to find a gallon of whip cream and three yards of lederhosen at this time of night? Narf!"
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 26.11.2019, 20:12
Dougal's Breakfast's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 18,281
Groaned at 1,126 Times in 875 Posts
Thanked 49,844 Times in 15,371 Posts
Dougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Primary school bans certain Christmas Carols

Quote:
in einem christlichen Land
There is no such thing.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 26.11.2019, 20:14
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 10,798
Groaned at 83 Times in 74 Posts
Thanked 16,341 Times in 7,265 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Primary school bans certain Christmas Carols

Quote:
View Post
Wasn't Jesus the gardener part of the Easter story?
Could be. But as we know from Stille Nacht God's son's real name is anyway not Jesus but Owie !
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 26.11.2019, 20:18
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 27,502
Groaned at 1,723 Times in 1,313 Posts
Thanked 31,902 Times in 15,264 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Primary school bans certain Christmas Carols

Quote:
View Post
Silent night doesn't contain the word Jesus which, outside of Hollywood films as an expletive, is offensive?
Quote:
View Post
8 times in the original Version
Bummer, only 6 times in the English version:

Silent night, holy night
All is calm, all is bright
'Round yon virgin Mother and Child
Holy infant so tender and mild
Sleep in heavenly peace
Sleep in heavenly peace

Silent night, holy night!
Shepherds quake at the sight!
Glories stream from heaven afar;
Heavenly hosts sing Al-le-lu-ia!
Christ the Savior is born!
Christ the Savior is born!
Christ the Savior is born!

Silent night, holy night
Son of God, oh, love's pure light
Radiant beams from Thy holy face
With the dawn of redeeming grace
Jesus, Lord at Thy birth
Jesus, Lord at Thy birth
Jesus, Lord at Thy birth

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 26.11.2019, 20:26
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 27,502
Groaned at 1,723 Times in 1,313 Posts
Thanked 31,902 Times in 15,264 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Primary school bans certain Christmas Carols

Perhaps they should demand the "Horst Wessel Song" instead.

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 26.11.2019, 20:37
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 9,828
Groaned at 139 Times in 118 Posts
Thanked 10,518 Times in 5,593 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Primary school bans certain Christmas Carols

Quote:
View Post
8 times in the original Version

Weyhnachts-Lied - Gustav Schreck

Stille Nacht! Heilige Nacht! ..............
Just realized I never made it past the first verse as a kid. Reading the text, I'm not surprised really.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank curley for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 26.11.2019, 20:40
Ace1's Avatar
A singular modality
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Morgins, VS
Posts: 7,668
Groaned at 289 Times in 187 Posts
Thanked 12,395 Times in 5,478 Posts
Ace1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Primary school bans certain Christmas Carols

It's far from clear from previous posts what exactly is the motivation, and I sincerely hope it's not because of their religious content, "Jesus" or otherwise.

I'm more than happy to celebrate Christmas, even though I'm an atheist, which in some peoples' eyes might make me a hypocrite, but it's what I was brought up with so I see no reason t spurn it just because I no longer believe in the religious bits of what os otherwise a pre-christian midwinter festival.

I can see that strong believers of other faiths might not want to join in, but surely they're not forced to take part in Carol services and the like, are they?
__________________
Introduce yourself!
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Ace1 for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Christmas carols in Geneva... McTAVGE Daily life 7 23.12.2015 13:31
Swiss public primary school back to UK primary school ambula Education 22 27.10.2015 17:49
CHristmas carols in Switzerland? eddiejc1 Other/general 18 15.12.2014 06:05
Christmas carols McTAVGE Entertainment & dining 0 20.11.2010 12:24
Christmas carols in Zug jannewbold Social events 3 20.12.2008 00:40


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 16:27.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0