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Old 11.02.2020, 21:55
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CIA spying based in Zug, supported by the BND!

Secret Service documents prove it: The CIA and the BND (German Federal Intelligence Service) spied on more than 100 states via the Swiss company Crypto in Zug.

This has been brought to light by joint research conducted by the SRF (Swiss TV) programme «Rundschau», the ZDF and the Washington Post.
Spying was facilitated by Crypto AG’s manipulated encryption devices.

According to research by the «Rundschau», the operation ran until at least 2018.
The Swiss Federal Council is opening an investigation.
The Swiss Federal Department of Economic Affairs has suspended the general export licence for Crypto devices.

Source
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Old 11.02.2020, 21:58
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Re: CIA spying based in Zug, supported by the BND!

Yes. A good read.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...nes-espionage/
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Old 11.02.2020, 22:18
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Re: CIA spying based in Zug, supported by the BND!

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Secret Service documents prove it: The CIA and the BND (German Federal Intelligence Service) spied on more than 100 states via the Swiss company Crypto in Zug.
. . .
The CIA ? Is the Chinese Intelligence Agency once again involved in mass hacking and electronic eavesdropping ? No wonder the US is so negative about Huawei.
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Old 11.02.2020, 22:39
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Re: CIA spying based in Zug, supported by the BND!

So?

Tom
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Old 11.02.2020, 22:40
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Re: CIA spying based in Zug, supported by the BND!

Any Western country should tell the US to get lost when they try to blackmail Huawai.
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Old 11.02.2020, 22:51
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Re: CIA spying based in Zug, supported by the BND!

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Any Western country should tell the US to get lost when they try to blackmail Huawai.
It's spelt Hawaii.

Tom
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Old 11.02.2020, 23:10
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Re: CIA spying based in Zug, supported by the BND!

The story is apparently not new, just rewarmed:
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/0...nage.html#more
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Old 12.02.2020, 09:50
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Re: CIA spying based in Zug, supported by the BND!

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The story is apparently not new, just rewarmed:
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/0...nage.html#more
The Baltimore Sun article is mentioned in the WaPo, though.
I doubt the Huawei link, it's too convoluted.
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Old 12.02.2020, 10:42
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Re: CIA spying based in Zug, supported by the BND!

As a "Steinhauser"... these are pretty old news... https://www.schneier.com/blog/archiv...ckdoors_i.html

Article from 2015: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-33676028

2010: https://web.archive.org/web/20101214.../crypto_ag.htm

[...] countless reports as this was already known but never fully investigated

Last edited by Th3Alchemist; 12.02.2020 at 10:59.
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Old 12.02.2020, 11:00
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Re: CIA spying based in Zug, supported by the BND!

This reads like a James Bond novel! Scary, amazing and very insightful link. Thanks!
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Old 12.02.2020, 12:40
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Re: CIA spying based in Zug, supported by the BND!

oh if Russia is not involved, not interesting.

This is what Putin and heads of other nations say (not fan of Putin or anyone else, exept myself :-) ), when US spy it is ok, but if others try to spy, then no no!
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Old 12.02.2020, 14:04
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Re: CIA spying based in Zug, supported by the BND!

Here is the ZDF video on the case: https://www.zdf.de/politik/frontal-2...bikon-100.html
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Old 12.02.2020, 22:53
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Re: CIA spying based in Zug, supported by the BND!

Believe it or not, no one here will care and will still adore Uncle Sam and regard him as big brother
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Old 13.02.2020, 12:01
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Re: CIA spying based in Zug, supported by the BND!

der Spiegel, 1996:


https://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-9088423.html


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Doch hinter der gediegenen Fassade wurde offenbar die dreisteste Geheimdienstfinte des Jahrhunderts inszeniert: Deutsche und amerikanische Dienste stehen im Verdacht, bis Ende der achtziger Jahre Cryptos Schutzgeräte so manipuliert zu haben, daß ihre Codes im Handumdrehen zu knacken waren.
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Old 13.02.2020, 13:59
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Re: CIA spying based in Zug, supported by the BND!

Ok, to be clear:
- everyone knew that the US had cracked the Lybian codes
- the Iranians had suspicions too
- the article shows that people knew about Germans and Americans interfering

but the news is:
- the entire company was directly owned by two spy agencies
- the employees had suspicions but no idea how far the spying went
- not just the machines for certain risky countries were messed with, but all including close European allies

Its one thing to spy on countries you know support terrorist attacks and worse. Its another to spy on everyone. This leads to a whole list of questions - we know now that Americans and Europeans had detailed inside information about all the political crises, wars, civil wars and what not else. So far did they very often excuse wrong decisions on "we had no idea how bad dictator xyz" was. We might have suspected it before, but now we know for a fact thats a lie.

Fun fact: the most surprised fact in this story for me is that the BND managed to pull this off. Against the current media releases is that hardly one of the worlds most successful services, but has a history of rather embarrasing failures. For example does this fall directly into the time where the Eastern German Stasi managed to get an agent into the Kanzleramt - the equivalent of the white house - directly relaying information that was presented to the head of the executive. I bet this means that the Eastern Germans learned about intel coming from this. And they would tell the Russians - if they didnt already knew. If I understand the case correctly were the machines manipulated to transmit not just the messages, but badly encrypted copies of the necessary keys. So if a service like the KGB knows this am I sure they figured out how to read the same cables.

To sum it up: The extent of the case is in fact new. And it looks like making the less developed 130 countries of the world have no secrets during the 70s and 80s made the world overall a safer place. At least for Americans and Germans. Latin Americans, Africans or Asians? Not so much. Now we can have a detailed look at all the lies our governments told us over decades… and understand why the first world was always two steps ahead of the rest.
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Old 13.02.2020, 14:13
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Re: CIA spying based in Zug, supported by the BND!

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Ok, to be clear:
- everyone knew that the US had cracked the Lybian codes
- the Iranians had suspicions too
- the article shows that people knew about Germans and Americans interfering

but the news is:
- the entire company was directly owned by two spy agencies
- the employees had suspicions but no idea how far the spying went
- not just the machines for certain risky countries were messed with, but all including close European allies

Its one thing to spy on countries you know support terrorist attacks and worse. Its another to spy on everyone. This leads to a whole list of questions - we know now that Americans and Europeans had detailed inside information about all the political crises, wars, civil wars and what not else. So far did they very often excuse wrong decisions on "we had no idea how bad dictator xyz" was. We might have suspected it before, but now we know for a fact thats a lie.

Fun fact: the most surprised fact in this story for me is that the BND managed to pull this off. Against the current media releases is that hardly one of the worlds most successful services, but has a history of rather embarrasing failures. For example does this fall directly into the time where the Eastern German Stasi managed to get an agent into the Kanzleramt - the equivalent of the white house - directly relaying information that was presented to the head of the executive. I bet this means that the Eastern Germans learned about intel coming from this. And they would tell the Russians - if they didnt already knew. If I understand the case correctly were the machines manipulated to transmit not just the messages, but badly encrypted copies of the necessary keys. So if a service like the KGB knows this am I sure they figured out how to read the same cables.

To sum it up: The extent of the case is in fact new. And it looks like making the less developed 130 countries of the world have no secrets during the 70s and 80s made the world overall a safer place. At least for Americans and Germans. Latin Americans, Africans or Asians? Not so much. Now we can have a detailed look at all the lies our governments told us over decades… and understand why the first world was always two steps ahead of the rest.
Following WWII, the UK
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Old 13.02.2020, 14:15
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Re: CIA spying based in Zug, supported by the BND!

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Ok, to be clear:
- everyone knew that the US had cracked the Lybian codes
- the Iranians had suspicions too
- the article shows that people knew about Germans and Americans interfering

but the news is:
- the entire company was directly owned by two spy agencies
- the employees had suspicions but no idea how far the spying went
- not just the machines for certain risky countries were messed with, but all including close European allies

Its one thing to spy on countries you know support terrorist attacks and worse. Its another to spy on everyone. This leads to a whole list of questions - we know now that Americans and Europeans had detailed inside information about all the political crises, wars, civil wars and what not else. So far did they very often excuse wrong decisions on "we had no idea how bad dictator xyz" was. We might have suspected it before, but now we know for a fact thats a lie.

Fun fact: the most surprised fact in this story for me is that the BND managed to pull this off. Against the current media releases is that hardly one of the worlds most successful services, but has a history of rather embarrasing failures. For example does this fall directly into the time where the Eastern German Stasi managed to get an agent into the Kanzleramt - the equivalent of the white house - directly relaying information that was presented to the head of the executive. I bet this means that the Eastern Germans learned about intel coming from this. And they would tell the Russians - if they didnt already knew. If I understand the case correctly were the machines manipulated to transmit not just the messages, but badly encrypted copies of the necessary keys. So if a service like the KGB knows this am I sure they figured out how to read the same cables.

To sum it up: The extent of the case is in fact new. And it looks like making the less developed 130 countries of the world have no secrets during the 70s and 80s made the world overall a safer place. At least for Americans and Germans. Latin Americans, Africans or Asians? Not so much. Now we can have a detailed look at all the lies our governments told us over decades… and understand why the first world was always two steps ahead of the rest.
Following WWII, the UK and US took a deep lesson on the value of cryptography. They and the 5 eyes network has been one step ahead of everyone else since.

It's no surprise that the US fear Huawei. Yes maybe they are scared that China would do the same. I suspect they have already compromised the alternative providers and fear losing a valuable source of intelligence.

A few months ago I was looking at VPN options and, coincidentally, found one major option was also by a guy in Switzerland. I had a gut feeling that was also likely to have been compromised. I'll be glad when WireGuard makes it into the Linux kernel. The US has done a good job of nixing VPN and IPSEC so far.
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Old 13.02.2020, 22:19
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Re: CIA spying based in Zug, supported by the BND!

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It's spelt Hawaii.
They're a Newcastle company - Huwawei the lads!!
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Old 14.02.2020, 09:51
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Re: CIA spying based in Zug, supported by the BND!

On a similar note on Huawei.

https://www.commerce.gov/news/press-...icense-45-days
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