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  #181  
Old 17.06.2021, 12:21
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Careful - you may get an infraction.
For an idiot statement?
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  #182  
Old 17.06.2021, 12:41
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

IIRC, there are approx 15 known/identified BSL-4 facilities worldwide. I am sure ALL of them have some weaponry mumbo jumbo going on.

Who knows how many unknown/unidentified BSL-4 facilities (or higher?!?) exist...

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IMHO there are such things as bio warfare labs and I've posted it from the beginning
https://www.englishforum.ch/3140864-post55.html
Let's all not act so surprised.
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  #183  
Old 17.06.2021, 12:56
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

You may be right. OTOH, there are constant games being played and neither the US govt nor the Chinese has a great track record when it comes to playing with lives of its own citizens or those of other nations.

My first thought in late 2019, was that this was a move against China in response to the Fentanyl "war" that China has been waging against the US for more than a decade. It may sound farfetched, but there appears to be one person in China (who is known/identified) who is responsible and is somehow untouchable.

No less than NPR writes about this. You will have to dig deeper to learn more about the crime syndicates and individuals who may be behind it and how they are teamed with Mexi/South American cartels to smuggle into their common enemy (and biggest market).
https://www.npr.org/2020/11/17/91689...s-to-drug-user

https://asiatimes.com/2020/12/cruel-...tanyl-exports/

Frightening and can give you a different perspective on the possibilities of what is happening around us!

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Just because it is possible it doesn't mean it's true, you know that too. If they had been more transparent at the beginning perhaps we wouldn't have had this discussion now.

Anyway, imo even if it was a lab-leak it was by accident or incompetence, lack of security, etc. Reminds me of Chernobyl in a way. The communist regime back then tried to cover their asses for weeks. This is what they do.
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  #184  
Old 17.06.2021, 12:58
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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When I think about it, I have never ever met a black evangelical Christian. Are there any?
Most, I would think.

Tom
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  #185  
Old 17.06.2021, 13:05
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

In fact, there are lots of them, but there is a bit of a schism among Black Christians in America right now.

Amongst White Christians, Evangelicals make up a large proportion. Currently, it is approx. an inverse ratio amongst Black Christians with abortion being a major issue (among others). Thus, it is also reflected in political affiliation as (traditionally) Blacks have identified with the Democratic Party. As more moved towards/into the Republican Party (quite a lot during the Trump presidency), the # of Black Evangelicals increased.

It will be interesting to track the #s leading up to 2024, as it will be a bellweather for which party wins the next presidency...

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When I think about it, I have never ever met a black evangelical Christian. Are there any?
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  #186  
Old 17.06.2021, 13:29
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Another conspiracy theory doing the rounds in the U.S. is with white evangelical Christians who are linking vaccines to the "mark of the beast" (whatever that means - perhaps someone on the forum knowledgeable about this fantasy world could enlighten me).

Anyway, nearly 50% of these people have no plans to get vaccinated compared with only 10% of atheists.

That's not going to help herd immunity.
Why?

Just bouncing some guesses here, but let's guesstimate that evangelicals make up 40% of America's population, 40% are atheists and the remaining 20% diverse (non Christian religions and non-evangelical Christians).

Let's put the diverse group at a halfway mark, so 30% have no plans to get vaccinated.

This means of the population as a whole, 30% have no plans to get vaccinated. That means by the time the vaccination programme finished, 70% will be vaccinated. In addition of those who are not vaccinated, say, 50% of those will have developed some form of immunity because they infected at some point. The more contact they have with other unvaccinated individuals, the more likely they are to be infected.

So it is not beyond reason that 80% to 85% will have some level of immunity and thus herd immunity is not beyond grasp.
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  #187  
Old 17.06.2021, 13:34
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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In fact, there are lots of them, but there is a bit of a schism among Black Christians in America right now.

Amongst White Christians, Evangelicals make up a large proportion. Currently, it is approx. an inverse ratio amongst Black Christians with abortion being a major issue (among others). Thus, it is also reflected in political affiliation as (traditionally) Blacks have identified with the Democratic Party. As more moved towards/into the Republican Party (quite a lot during the Trump presidency), the # of Black Evangelicals increased.
I think that many Black Christians have aligned with the Dems traditionally because they saw themselves as being Black first and Christians second. In an increasing number of cases this identification may be flipping. Topics such as abortion, may be polarizing forces here. Traditionally the Dem party may have been majority pro abortion, but there have also been anti abortion elements, who have got a lot weaker of late.
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  #188  
Old 17.06.2021, 13:57
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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So it is not beyond reason that 80% to 85% will have some level of immunity and thus herd immunity is not beyond grasp.

For herd immunity to work, it's expecting that the spread of non-vaccinated individuals being random and wide-spread amongst a population.

The point is that this gives a very small chance of an unvaccinated person having contact with a current COVID sufferer just because of the laws of averages.

For that figure of 80% to 85% to work requires that the 15% to 20% of unvaccinated follow this pattern.

If most of these are in a religious group* that habitat, worship, and generally spend time together, that's not following that pattern and infection rates and the chance of spreading infection would be much higher.

*or any group but in this case it's a religious group.
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  #189  
Old 17.06.2021, 13:59
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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For herd immunity to work, it's expecting that the spread of non-vaccinated individuals being random and wide-spread amongst a population.

The point is that this gives a very small chance of an unvaccinated person having contact with a current COVID sufferer just because of the laws of averages.

For that figure of 80% to 85% to work requires that the 15% to 20% of unvaccinated follow this pattern.

If most of these are in a religious group* that habitat, worship, and generally spend time together, that's not following that pattern and infection rates and the chance of spreading infection would be much higher.

*or any group but in this case it's a religious group.
it's ok. the whole group will eventually be infected and develop immunity or die. either way, the problem is solved.
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  #190  
Old 17.06.2021, 14:03
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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it's ok. the whole group will eventually be infected and develop immunity or die. either way, the problem is solved.
Taking lots of other people with suppressed immune systems or in whom the vaccine did not work effectively with them....
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  #191  
Old 17.06.2021, 14:04
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Taking lots of other people with suppressed immune systems or in whom the vaccine did not work effectively with them....
those people just need to hole up and avoid the first group until they die out.
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  #192  
Old 17.06.2021, 14:04
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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For herd immunity to work, it's expecting that the spread of non-vaccinated individuals being random and wide-spread amongst a population.

The point is that this gives a very small chance of an unvaccinated person having contact with a current COVID sufferer just because of the laws of averages.

For that figure of 80% to 85% to work requires that the 15% to 20% of unvaccinated follow this pattern.

If most of these are in a religious group* that habitat, worship, and generally spend time together, that's not following that pattern and infection rates and the chance of spreading infection would be much higher.

*or any group but in this case it's a religious group.
In many cases this has already happened. Some months ago there was a story of an Amish community having reportedly reached herd immunity without a single individual having ever being vaccinated. So actually these people having intense contact with one another is helping them reach herd immunity faster, and they are probably way ahead of isolated unprotected individuals.

Maybe at the cost of some individuals dying. But still, statistically speaking this is the effect.
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  #193  
Old 17.06.2021, 14:18
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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In many cases this has already happened. Some months ago there was a story of an Amish community having reportedly reached herd immunity without a single individual having ever being vaccinated. So actually these people having intense contact with one another is helping them reach herd immunity faster, and they are probably way ahead of isolated unprotected individuals.

Maybe at the cost of some individuals dying. But still, statistically speaking this is the effect.

The statement at the end of my last post still stands as evangelicals are not really like the Amish at all in that they interact much more with others not connected with the community who may chose not to be infected this way but to have the vaccine when it is made available to them instead.

You can dress up and defend this behaviour as much as you want but it's still incredibly selfish and self-serving.
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  #194  
Old 17.06.2021, 17:01
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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it's ok. the whole group will eventually be infected and develop immunity or die. either way, the problem is solved.
This exactly.

If you have anti-vaxxer friends, don't hug them for a while.

Especially if they've just been on vacation in India.

Oh, and if you're an atheist, stop going to evangelical church services.
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  #195  
Old 17.06.2021, 17:11
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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This exactly.

If you have anti-vaxxer friends, don't hug them for a while.

Especially if they've just been on vacation in India.

Oh, and if you're an atheist, stop going to evangelical church services.
But it's not this exactly, is it?

You can avoid them.

It's the people who they interact with who can't avoid them that get the raw deal and suffer from their selfishness - shop workers, hospital staff, co-workers, gym users and trainers and so on...
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  #196  
Old 17.06.2021, 19:07
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

My husbands friends of over 50 years are both anti - vaxers - they keep ringing to come and visit but I have said no due to the fact that husband was in hospital for 3 months with Covid and is only seeing friends with both vaccines.

They live in a multi generation household - son travelling abroad weekly, grandchildren at school but just don't seem to get it that they could pass it on to anyone and are at risk of getting the virus themselves....
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  #197  
Old 17.06.2021, 21:53
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

…pharma tripled in just 20 years...
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conspiracy-beliefs-rise-pharma.png   conspiracy-beliefs-rise-pharma1.png  
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  #198  
Old 17.06.2021, 22:26
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Most, I would think.

Tom
Especially if you include the continent of Africa.
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  #199  
Old 18.06.2021, 01:35
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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…pharma tripled in just 20 years..
That's fairly close to GDP increase.

GDP increased by 160% from 2001 to 2019. Or, to make it comparable to your triple, it increased to 2.6 fold.
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  #200  
Old 18.06.2021, 08:40
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

Here's another one from Guests in our Restaurant....

"I'm not anti vacinating, I'm just not sure about the long term effects of the jab juice"

O.K. accepted that, untill at the end she said.... "And I don't want to be injected with nano robots and be detected with magnets(!!!!!)"

LOOOOONIES!

Why are people spreading this shite!?



Stay healthy y'all

an' 'ave a Great Day

GREG
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