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Old 22.06.2021, 14:22
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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So you accept the opinion that there is a Nazi base on the far side of the moon and the Nazis are going to come back and rule the world?
yes.
Now I can choose to argue with you and try to "educate" you if it feels important to me or makes me feel better.
Or I think what a effing mor. you are and stop interracting with you.
Or I change subjects since, apart from that strange thought, you are genuinely nice.
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  #282  
Old 22.06.2021, 14:26
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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yes.
Now I can choose to argue with you and try to "educate" you if it feels important to me or makes me feel better.
Or I think what a effing mor.
It's not my opinion but someone made a film about it (I think it was the Mad Heidi people).
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  #283  
Old 22.06.2021, 14:30
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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......... To accept an opinion isn't equal to agreeing as amogles wrote........
You need to brush up on your English grammar on when to use "accept" versus "agree".

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You can use accept when you want to say that someone recognizes that something is true, fair, or right. It is followed by a noun phrase or a that-clause:
Our clients will never accept this proposal.
The great majority of landowners accept that they must obey the law.

When you want to say that someone expresses their willingness to do something, use agree with an infinitive.
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Accept:

To hold something as true.

Agree:

To express your willingness to do something, you have to use agree with a to-infinitive.
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  #284  
Old 22.06.2021, 14:31
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

"… personality traits such as openness to experience, distrust, low agreeability, and Machiavellianism are associated with conspiracy belief.

Lantian et al. (2017) continue:

In terms of cognitive processes, people with stronger conspiracy beliefs are more likely to overestimate the likelihood of co-occurring events, to attribute intentionality where it is unlikely to exist, and to have lower levels of analytic thinking.

Conspiracy theories make a person feel special

Lantian et al.'s (2017) research examined the role of a person's 'need for uniqueness' and a belief of conspiracy theories, and found a correlation.

We argue that people high in need for uniqueness should be more likely than others to endorse conspiracy beliefs because conspiracy theories represent the possession of unconventional and potentially scarce information. […] Moreover, conspiracy theories rely on narratives that refer to secret knowledge (Mason, 2002) or information, which, by definition, is not accessible to everyone, otherwise it would not be a secret and it would be a well-known fact.

People who believe in conspiracy theories can feel "special," in a positive sense, because they may feel that they are more informed than others about important social and political events. […]

Our findings can also be connected to recent research demonstrating that individual narcissism, or a grandiose idea of the self, is positively related to belief in conspiracy theories. Interestingly, Cichocka et al. (2016) found that paranoid thought mediates the relationship between individual narcissism and conspiracy beliefs."


A psychologist explains why people cling to conspiracy theories during uncertain times
https://www.businessinsider.com/psyc...20-4?r=US&IR=T
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  #285  
Old 22.06.2021, 14:31
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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It's not my opinion but someone made a film about it (I think it was the Mad Heidi people).
Yeah that was clear from your side.
Sorry I phrased that poorly or in fact I was too lazy to form a conditional.
If a person voiced that opinion I could choose between:....
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  #286  
Old 22.06.2021, 14:43
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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You need to brush up on your English grammar on when to use "accept" versus "agree".
I just did.
While I agree with you and the examples given above, I think you might have to accept that "accept" can be used differently, depending on the context:


https://www.managementtraininginstit...ou-dont-agree/

https://www.quora.com/Is-there-a-dif...reeing-with-it

Of course, the sources are not as renowned as yours, but I think it's enough to indicate at least a colloquial use.
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  #287  
Old 22.06.2021, 14:52
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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I just did.
While I agree with you and the examples given above, I think you might have to accept that "accept" can be used differently, depending on the context:

https://www.managementtraininginstit...ou-dont-agree/

https://www.quora.com/Is-there-a-dif...reeing-with-it

Of course, the sources are not as renowned as yours, but I think it's enough to indicate at least a colloquial use.
From your links, it is the difference between
I accept your opinion
&
I accept that is your opinion
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  #288  
Old 22.06.2021, 15:03
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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From your links, it is the difference between
I accept your opinion
&
I accept that is your opinion
Yes and thats exactly the point I was trying to make.

To me, it was clear that MC went for the second meaning in this context here:


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It seems to me that whenever some opinions are hard to accept, understand or imagine, they might be pigeonholed into the "fake news", "stupid" or "conspiracy theory" categories.
But yes, that lady loves ambiguity
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  #289  
Old 22.06.2021, 15:07
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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But yes, that lady loves ambiguity
That's putting it politely.
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  #290  
Old 22.06.2021, 15:15
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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I'm not sure how the sarcasm is intended to be interpreted, but it'd before Eratosthenes in 240BC, as he merely calculated it. Plato mentioned in his writings. Chinese cosmology said the Earth was flat until European astronomy was introduced in the 1500s.

It doesn't seem the idea of a spherical Earth really provoked much of an issue.

The idea that there was ever a time in Europe in the last couple of millenia that flat earth was widely accepted is a myth (but not a conspiracy).
Yep, bad example.
Maybe a few people got what I meant anyway.

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Google will probably agree with most historians that there never was such a discussion.

But you are the one who brought it up. So I was hoping you could enlighten us with your source.
To keep the peace at least on this one, I guess I should plead guilty.

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You got to be fair here. The Catholic Church admitted in 1992 that it was wrong. That's in the previous millennium
So? Even the snow flakes were born by then.
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  #291  
Old 22.06.2021, 15:40
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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... there is a Nazi base on the far side of the moon and the Nazis are going to come back and rule the world?
All true. Your smoking gun proof is here!
Link incase the image does not embed

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  #292  
Old 22.06.2021, 16:32
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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You got to be fair here. The Catholic Church admitted in 1992 that it was wrong. That's in the previous millennium
er no.

The Catholic Church never said the Earth was flat and this was never a point of contention, not even when Galileo was alive.

The point of contention was about the trajectory of the moon and planets.
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  #293  
Old 22.06.2021, 16:35
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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From your links, it is the difference between
I accept your opinion
&
I accept that is your opinion
What about option (C)

C: I accept that this opinion exists among a significant number of people.

If you want to do something about for example, genital mutiliation of children, the first thing you need to overcome is opinions that maintain it doesn't exist, or it doesn't exist here, or it does exist but it's so rare as to make no difference. And anybody who claims otherwise is a delusional idiot, or even part of the conspiracy.
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  #294  
Old 22.06.2021, 16:44
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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From your links, it is the difference between
I accept your opinion
&
I accept that is your opinion
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What about option (C)

C: I accept that this opinion exists among a significant number of people.

If you want to do something about for example, genital mutiliation of children, the first thing you need to overcome is opinions that maintain it doesn't exist, or it doesn't exist here, or it does exist but it's so rare as to make no difference. And anybody who claims otherwise is a delusional idiot, or even part of the conspiracy.
"your" is a plural pronoun, so no Option C: it is already covered.
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  #295  
Old 22.06.2021, 16:47
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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So you accept the opinion that there is a Nazi base on the far side of the moon and the Nazis are going to come back and rule the world?
If, for example, significant numbers of people believe there is going to be an imminent and massive hike in tax on of toilet paper, it might be fair to expect that sale of toilet rolls is going to increase as people buy in panic.

Thus an incorrect belief can lead to a real and observable result.

If you want to understand the behaviour of people, of markets and societies, you need to take into account the incorrect theories as well as the correct.

If significant numbers of people believed nazis were going to come from the moon and reconquer the Earth on a given day, and were to gather in a given location and start shooting at random objects in the sky, it might be a good idea to avoid catching a plane flying over that area on that day.

"Ah, but the science", or "why should I listen to conspiracy theories?", isn't a good argument when you're dead.
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  #296  
Old 22.06.2021, 16:54
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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If, for example, significant numbers of people believe there is going to be an imminent and massive hike in tax on of toilet paper, it might be fair to expect that sale of toilet rolls is going to increase as people buy in panic.

Thus an incorrect belief can lead to a real and observable result.

If you want to understand the behaviour of people, of markets and societies, you need to take into account the incorrect theories as well as the correct.

If significant numbers of people believes nazis were going to come from the moon and reconquer the Earth on a given day, and were to gather in a given location and start shooting at random objects in the sky, it might be a good idea to not catch a plane flying over that area on that day.
I'm not sure I have ever written anything that contradicts what you have just written.

On the contrary, it's what makes conspiracy theories so dangerous and why they don't deserve a mainstream platform.

Look what happened with MMR.

I don't have the figures but I wonder how many mothers gave birth to deformed babies due to parents refusing to give their children the MMR vaccine so they missed out on the rubella component of the vaccine.

Even though Wakefield was discredited and stuck off. People still believe the vaccine causes autism to this day.
Or, as someone told me worryingly only the other day, "Of course MMR doesn't cause autism, that's been shown - but it does trigger it"...
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  #297  
Old 22.06.2021, 17:04
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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On the contrary, it's what makes conspiracy theories so dangerous and why they don't deserve a mainstream platform.
Conspiracy theories don't need a mainstream platform to spread.

But if the counter-arguments fail to engage with the actual arguments of the conspiracy theorists, they are going to fail to overcome them.

The mainstream platforms tend to either ignore conspiracy theories, for fear that talking about them is creating free publicity for them, or otherwise they tend to engage with some caricature or exaggeration or comic summary version of the conspiracy theory, and engage with that instead.

You can't convince people by countering arguments they don't actually believe.

In other words, if you really want to convince people you first of all need to understand what it is they actually believe and why and try to put yourself inside their mind to see where the problem is. I don't really see many people doing this.

This is true not just for conspiracy theories but for almost any type of disagreement. It's why politics is so messed up for example.
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  #298  
Old 22.06.2021, 17:16
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Conspiracy theories don't need a mainstream platform to spread.
No, but it certainly helps. I don't find people like F--ing Kite linking to some dark web portal but to Youtube. I don't think you can get more mainstream than Youtube.

Of course you don't need social media at all. The Church in the U.S, for example, appears to be another catalyst for nonsense.


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You can't convince people by countering arguments they don't actually believe.

.
I don't think you can convince some (or most) people at all. The autism one I mentioned when the believer just moved the goal posts in one example.

The creationists have another one when biological anthropologists find the missing link between A and C and call it B, they just carry on and next ask, "But what is the link between A and B)?
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  #299  
Old 22.06.2021, 17:17
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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If, for example, significant numbers of people believe there is going to be an imminent and massive hike in tax on of toilet paper, it might be fair to expect that sale of toilet rolls is going to increase as people buy in panic.

Thus an incorrect belief can lead to a real and observable result.

If you want to understand the behaviour of people, of markets and societies, you need to take into account the incorrect theories as well as the correct.

If significant numbers of people believed nazis were going to come from the moon and reconquer the Earth on a given day, and were to gather in a given location and start shooting at random objects in the sky, it might be a good idea to avoid catching a plane flying over that area on that day.

"Ah, but the science", or "why should I listen to conspiracy theories?", isn't a good argument when you're dead.
Probably it would be noticed when people start running around with weapons capable of hitting a plane that is 6 miles high.
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Old 22.06.2021, 17:23
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Probably it would be noticed when people start running around with weapons capable of hitting a plane that is 6 miles high.
There are locations where planes aren't 6 miles high.

Outside Kloten for example.

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