Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #301  
Old 22.06.2021, 17:30
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 338 Times in 274 Posts
Thanked 26,263 Times in 11,000 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

Quote:
View Post

I don't think you can convince some (or most) people at all. The autism one I mentioned when the believer just moved the goal posts in one example.
I'm not sure. It's more complicated than that.

Quote:
View Post
The creationists have another one when biological anthropologists find the missing link between A and C and call it B, they just carry on and next ask, "But what is the link between A and B)?
Maybe the biologists are the dumb ones here, assuming that finding B will put to bed that argument forever.

If that is indeed their goal.

Which probably it isn't.

I don't think answering back to creationists features very high among the reasons that they go to work every day.

So the problem is that they're not winning an argument that they don't even know they are part of.
Reply With Quote
  #302  
Old 22.06.2021, 17:59
nickatbasel's Avatar
Mod, Chips and Mushy Peas
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Albisrieden
Posts: 5,438
Groaned at 167 Times in 104 Posts
Thanked 8,701 Times in 3,225 Posts
nickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

Quote:
View Post
So you accept the opinion that there is a Nazi base on the far side of the moon and the Nazis are going to come back and rule the world?
That's what the Sunday Sport said in 1988 - and it was the fault of Neil Kinnock.
Reply With Quote
  #303  
Old 22.06.2021, 18:00
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 12,004
Groaned at 630 Times in 534 Posts
Thanked 22,409 Times in 11,761 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

Quote:
View Post
If significant numbers of people believed nazis were going to come from the moon and reconquer the Earth on a given day, and were to gather in a given location and start shooting at random objects in the sky, it might be a good idea to avoid catching a plane flying over that area on that day.
Quote:
View Post
There are locations where planes aren't 6 miles high.

Outside Kloten for example.

So now these death-dealing nazis are no longer coming from the moon but from Kloten?

This is getting silly, going for a swim now...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #304  
Old 22.06.2021, 18:31
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 17,415
Groaned at 685 Times in 533 Posts
Thanked 26,566 Times in 10,709 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

Quote:
View Post

Maybe the biologists are the dumb ones here, assuming that finding B will put to bed that argument forever.
I don't think they're assuming that.

I don't think they're even part of the argument.

The creationists will just seize anything they can to prove (to themselves) that evolution is false.
Reply With Quote
  #305  
Old 22.06.2021, 18:35
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,488
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,435 Times in 10,578 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

I wonder if simple "I disagree with your opinion but accept the fact that you have it, understand why you have it or imagine why people have it" would allow for a better debate than a simple " your opinion is nonsense".

My opinion is that a Czech soccer team is good. I accept the fact that we will probably lose tonight.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #306  
Old 22.06.2021, 18:45
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 338 Times in 274 Posts
Thanked 26,263 Times in 11,000 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

Quote:
View Post
I don't think they're assuming that.

I don't think they're even part of the argument.

The creationists will just seize anything they can to prove (to themselves) that evolution is false.
I agree with the first two points. In fact I made them in myself in my earlier post.

I believe your third point is mistaken. But it can become a self fulfilling prophecy if you treat people as if it is true.
Reply With Quote
  #307  
Old 22.06.2021, 19:04
NotAllThere's Avatar
Modulo 2
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 15,399
Groaned at 322 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 23,990 Times in 9,761 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

Quote:
View Post
Quote:
View Post
On the other hand, did you ever hear how the round earth theory was welcomed when it was first mentioned?
You got to be fair here. The Catholic Church admitted in 1992 that it was wrong. That's in the previous millennium
Er. No. https://www.newscientist.com/article...leo-was-right/

In 1992, the Catholic Church admitted that Galileo was right. The Earth moves around the sun (Copernicus). The Sun does not move around the Earth (Ptolemy). Nothing flat earthy to see. Move along. Come on people - this is basic History of Science!

Let me say it again. The idea that any significant number of Western scholars, including Catholic ones, ever promoted the idea that the Earth was flat is a myth. It did not happen. It is not, and has never been, Catholic dogma.
__________________
Down with racism. Long live miscegenation!

Last edited by NotAllThere; 22.06.2021 at 19:10. Reason: Dumb typo
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #308  
Old 22.06.2021, 21:21
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 13,131
Groaned at 218 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 15,264 Times in 7,847 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

Quote:
View Post
Er. No. https://www.newscientist.com/article...leo-was-right/

In 1992, the Catholic Church admitted that Galileo was right. The Earth moves around the sun (Copernicus). The Sun does not move around the Earth (Ptolemy). Nothing flat earthy to see. Move along. Come on people - this is basic History of Science!

Let me say it again. The idea that any significant number of Western scholars, including Catholic ones, ever promoted the idea that the Earth was flat is a myth. It did not happen. It is not, and has never been, Catholic dogma.
by the current state of historical knowledge it's a myth. I checked wikipedia after you chided me.
(Wanna bet someone is now gonna say "yeah but wikipedia ...." rofl. It's good enough for me to admit I took a wrong example.

However, I wanted to point out something completely different and used a wrong example. Water under the bridge to me now.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank curley for this useful post:
  #309  
Old 22.06.2021, 21:34
nickatbasel's Avatar
Mod, Chips and Mushy Peas
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Albisrieden
Posts: 5,438
Groaned at 167 Times in 104 Posts
Thanked 8,701 Times in 3,225 Posts
nickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

Quote:
View Post
I wonder if simple "I disagree with your opinion but accept the fact that you have it, understand why you have it or imagine why people have it" would allow for a better debate than a simple " your opinion is nonsense".
Because conspiracy theories are not a matter for debate. They are simply a way for stupid people who do not understand basic science and have no analytical skills to pretend to be clever. As this thread is proving.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank nickatbasel for this useful post:
  #310  
Old 22.06.2021, 21:44
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,488
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,435 Times in 10,578 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

Quote:
View Post
Because conspiracy theories are not a matter for debate. They are simply a way for stupid people who do not understand basic science and have no analytical skills to pretend to be clever. As this thread is proving.
As somebody said earlier, shooing them away by calling people idiots will make them even more defensive and closed off. It looks like a big part of the society wants everyone to vax. Do you think calling the hesitant people idiots will warm them up? It boils down to the fact that whether something is a conspiracy theory or just a different opinion doesn't actually matter; but how you make the opponents share, communicate and exchange ideas matters bigly. The minute you said 'stupid people' my mind got disappointed... You imposing what's for a debate and what's not isn't going to work. Lack of trust and positivity just puts opposing camps into isolated capsules, nobody learns anything. Nothing changes. Nobody wins, it's illusive. Maybe some feel smarter than others but there is no progress.
__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #311  
Old 22.06.2021, 21:59
NotAllThere's Avatar
Modulo 2
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 15,399
Groaned at 322 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 23,990 Times in 9,761 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

Quote:
View Post
As somebody said earlier, shooing them away by calling people idiots ...
Idiot.
Reply With Quote
  #312  
Old 22.06.2021, 22:07
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,488
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,435 Times in 10,578 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

Quote:
View Post
Idiot.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #313  
Old 22.06.2021, 23:02
FairDinkum's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Basel
Posts: 581
Groaned at 287 Times in 129 Posts
Thanked 865 Times in 377 Posts
FairDinkum has a reputation beyond reputeFairDinkum has a reputation beyond reputeFairDinkum has a reputation beyond reputeFairDinkum has a reputation beyond reputeFairDinkum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

Quote:
View Post
Because conspiracy theories are not a matter for debate. They are simply a way for stupid people who do not understand basic science and have no analytical skills to pretend to be clever. As this thread is proving.



When it comes to conspiracy I wonder who has the authority to say “this is a conspiracy theory” .. And how come , stating facts is a conspiracy?
Connecting the dots is a conspiracy..? Even stating the obvious is a conspiracy right now




Rhetorically, it comes down to this: only if you question what your governement /billiionaires/rulers tell you , then, that’s a conspiracy . (because they dont lie to you) This is why you are >> a stupid person .

But, if you dont question what you’ve been told, if you dont state some obvious lies, interests, corruption,… then , you’re not stupid . You are very intelligent . Just obey , consume, obey , listen to your masters and you’re (they tell you) very very smart.
__________________
“Let's just say I was testing the bounds of reality. I was curious to see what would happen. That's all it was: just curiosity.”jm
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank FairDinkum for this useful post:
  #314  
Old 22.06.2021, 23:06
FairDinkum's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Basel
Posts: 581
Groaned at 287 Times in 129 Posts
Thanked 865 Times in 377 Posts
FairDinkum has a reputation beyond reputeFairDinkum has a reputation beyond reputeFairDinkum has a reputation beyond reputeFairDinkum has a reputation beyond reputeFairDinkum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

When it comes to conspiracy who is guaranteeing me how they are not conspiring against us ?? 



How come I’m conspiring but Klaus Schwab , the guy who created WEF , reuniting the richest, most progressive, powerful companies and people since ’71.. they do only great things but somehow all their talks are behind closed doors. How come we dont get to hear what they’re talking about ? (same goes for bilderberg group etc..)


Also, this same guy wrote the book about the 4th Industrial revolution (that’s just about to come because they’re creating it) .. spoke on CH tv of how they preparing right now this new world for us .. that should “Lead to a Fusion of Our Physical, Digital and Biological Identity”(implantable microchips that can read your thoughts)

He also wrote the book Covid19 - The Great Reset where he even toys with us, telling us how , this virus is needed so this world should (and must) morph into a new world (global government) 
(digital money, tracing, QR for everything and everywhere, chipping, drone surveillance ) .. 



So he wrote that and each year all those AI tech companies sit together they “talk” (they dont conspire like us) ) they’re designing our future the way they want it to be ..Yet, if I say that, or just ask , hmmm shouldnt we be concerned about this? debating? experts talking on round tables , on tv etc.. oh I’m tagged to be a conspiracy theory looney .

We’ve arrived to this because for years, there is this brainwashing known as manufacturing public consent (goes back to Lippmann) even though Chomsky did develop it and mastered it.


__________________
“Let's just say I was testing the bounds of reality. I was curious to see what would happen. That's all it was: just curiosity.”jm
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank FairDinkum for this useful post:
  #315  
Old 22.06.2021, 23:13
Pancakes's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Zurich-ish
Posts: 5,278
Groaned at 300 Times in 215 Posts
Thanked 11,309 Times in 4,268 Posts
Pancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

Name:  what the .jpg
Views: 186
Size:  11.4 KB
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Pancakes for this useful post:
  #316  
Old 23.06.2021, 01:52
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 13,131
Groaned at 218 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 15,264 Times in 7,847 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

Quote:
View Post
Because conspiracy theories are not a matter for debate. They are simply a way for stupid people who do not understand basic science and have no analytical skills to pretend to be clever. As this thread is proving.
They are not for debate? Per se? LOL, I can think of quite a few leading politicians who will be pleased to hear that.

Stupid people who do not understand basic science. Why science? What's a dream of a bunch of rich, bored people got to do with science? This self-righteous attitude of yours furthers some people getting scared when people who believe they're influential start talking about their philosophical dreams. I'm not bothered when Klaus Schwab, Prince Charles & Co. bang out their big reset theories but I'm not fighting for survival on minimum wage in a job in some vanishing industry, having to feed a wife and three kids, feeling weak and at the mercy of the rich.
Okay, even worse, I'm Swiss and the June 12th votes have clearly shown that this country will be a hard nut to crack (again) as they don't seem much into this reset-thing just now, do they.

All people who don't get vaccinated are stupid people who do not understand basic science? Seriously? So they all don't because they believe in a Gates-chip being implemented? There is nothing in between? They couldn't have very simple, other reasons? Which are none of our business?

Okay, some conspiracy theories are wild and one wonders how people come up with them. Not new, we've experienced that with sects all over the world. With deadly outcomes even. Were they all stupid? More likely insecure, scared and looking up to people who offered them the one and only solution.
Does that in anyway sound familiar with the present situation?
I say, best each and everyone makes their own decision on this vaccine because which ever way it turns out at least one can live with what ever it turns out to be.

Feeling strong within the masses, huh? When the masses turn direction, go along, it's safe. There is a German word for that: "Wendehals". It's not a description for intelligence and education, believe me.
__________________
It's all a matter or perspective.
So move your butt and look at it from the other side
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank curley for this useful post:
  #317  
Old 23.06.2021, 08:10
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 17,415
Groaned at 685 Times in 533 Posts
Thanked 26,566 Times in 10,709 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

Quote:
View Post
All people who don't get vaccinated are stupid people who do not understand basic science? Seriously? So they all don't because they believe in a Gates-chip being implemented? There is nothing in between? They couldn't have very simple, other reasons? Which are none of our business?
Obviously if they do not believe that a chip will be inserted at vaccine time then they don't believe in the conspiracy theory.

Of course people can have other reasons which can make sense to them at least - fear, misunderstanding, selfishness (what's in it for them?)

I seem to recall on another thread that you didn't think people needed to be vaccinated against childhood diseases which are on the whole, pretty harmless to the majority of people.
That's not really the point.
A high take up rate of a vaccine will prevent others for whom the vaccine may not work from getting the disease and who may get a severe case of the illness in question.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #318  
Old 23.06.2021, 08:23
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Basel
Posts: 410
Groaned at 24 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 661 Times in 265 Posts
Polymath has a reputation beyond reputePolymath has a reputation beyond reputePolymath has a reputation beyond reputePolymath has a reputation beyond reputePolymath has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

Quote:
View Post
Because conspiracy theories are not a matter for debate. They are simply a way for stupid people who do not understand basic science and have no analytical skills to pretend to be clever. As this thread is proving.
What about conspiracy theories that turned out to be conspiracies?

Quote:
They started out as simple rumors spread by people of little credibility, however, history has shown us that, sometimes these urban legends hold a lot of truth. Discover eight conspiracy theories that turned out to be true.
The article cited is not too detailed (could be helpful for 'stupid people'). Erudite folk can explore the rabbit holes as they wish.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Polymath for this useful post:
  #319  
Old 23.06.2021, 08:34
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 17,415
Groaned at 685 Times in 533 Posts
Thanked 26,566 Times in 10,709 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

Quote:
View Post
What about conspiracy theories that turned out to be conspiracies?
Have you got a list of those?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #320  
Old 23.06.2021, 08:53
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 15,120
Groaned at 301 Times in 201 Posts
Thanked 19,235 Times in 8,095 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

the believers in cloud people conspiracies seems to be on the decline:

https://www.pewforum.org/2019/10/17/...at-rapid-pace/
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rental agency asking for my religious beliefs higgsboson Housing in general 34 24.07.2018 09:21
Why Are Cancer Genes Changed Based on Beliefs? Alkalarian Family matters/health 112 24.06.2016 09:47
The Edge : Long Held Wrong Scientific Beliefs cyrus General off-topic 2 26.11.2010 12:03
Conspiracy..... Swiss Cheddar Forum support 27 04.07.2008 21:14


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:14.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0