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  #361  
Old 24.06.2021, 13:15
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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And that’s even more eco because the phone has already been manufactured
Last time I checked all phones, that one can buy, have already been manufactured.
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  #362  
Old 24.06.2021, 13:41
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Think the biggest consumer conspiracy of all time is planned obsolescence.
https://youtu.be/j5v8D-alAKE
However, this is one conspiracy belief that is not fake IMHO.
So am off now shopping Digitec for a new phone.
Not new really, is it.

Samsung has jumped on that non-battery-change hype as well. For the first time I got one of those. I felt I was at their mercy but I guess next time I'll just have to put more time into this.

Ah, and while I felt forced to buy that thing I fell for the colour-trick. I absolutely insisted on having a blue one! It took only a few days after receiving it to realize that I myself basically never see that colour.
One lives and learns - I hope people watching me on the handy like blue.
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  #363  
Old 24.06.2021, 14:23
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Last time I checked all phones, that one can buy, have already been manufactured.
Unless you take your chance with Kickstarter, then it gets all Schrodinger since at any point in time the product may or may not exist depending on who you believe, and one of those items may or may not be yours and may or may not actually ever be sent to you. It's like two Schrodinger cats mated and it's doubly uncertain.
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  #364  
Old 24.06.2021, 17:26
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Knowing how you like history excursions...Commies decapitated the "enemies of state", McCarthy destroyed lives, etc. etc. Chinese don't let people with low social credit use the public transport I heard. Marxists weren't nor are different to what you mentioned in your post. Orwell mastered the definition of group-think.
yup

I am absolutely aware that Marxism, at least on a theoretical level, needs the concept of "enemy of the state" or "enemy of the people" to survive. The enemy is not primarily an external superpower threatening war but an internal conspiracy of people who do not share the Marxist ideal and who must be rooted out.

Because this enemy shores up and justifies the entire system, including all the controls and repression, if ever they do succeed in wiping such an enemy out, a new one must be defined immediately. This is where the media play a role.

This terrible enemy is always invisible and lurks among us. Without the state to point out who the enemy is, nobody would know.

And so they set about wiping out aristocrats, doctors, farmers who are too successful, Jews, all in the name of maintaining the narrative.

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I may sound quite bizarro, I know, but I lived it. Living in Germany, UK or US was little bit better, different but group think seemed to be creeping in, too. There was a lot more freedom for me, no obvious silencing/banning of alternate opinions...
I think that in the 1980s in the west there was probably a greater diversity of opinions than there is today, all represented somehow in the mainstream, albeit on the fringes of the mainstream.

The age of the internet has led to many of these fringes blowing their own trumpet too much, with the being expelled from the mainstream as result.

Before that there were places and situations where you could get away with virtually anything. But I think that was maybe in EE too. One Hungarian gentleman I talked to told me that in socialist times there was a TV talkshow focussed on culture and literature where they would get away with saying and discussing anything at all and the censors either never found out or looked away. The only problem was that this show was in the early hours of the morning and the time was not to be found in any official TV schedule or announcement. But word got around and tens of thousands of people would stay up at night to watch it, with the TV audio turned down to a minimum so as not to alert the neighbours.

I think a regime can get away with providing a safety valve so a small percentile of discontents can be amused as long as they don't cause any damage. It's only when ideas break out of that group that things get dangerous.

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It is interesting what crisis as Covid19 can accelerate. I do not think that most vax hesitants are conspirationalists. I am glad that our amazingly diverse community (of funny and smart expat and local people) is also aware of the local spirit of letting marginal, different, alternate voices and opinions be heard. "That's where I am from" now. I stayed in CH for a couple of reasons, one of them was this. People are attentive to other opinions, some of the marginal opinions have in the meantime become the accepted reality.
exactly

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Exactly. If people do not want to have a dialogue with somebody, why announce it. Talk to those who will listen. There are plenty of people willing to listen, create a good, civil exchange. Those who are civil and want genuine exchange always get an answer.
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  #365  
Old 24.06.2021, 18:06
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

Guiliani was bitten by his own conspiracy beliefs;
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The New York Supreme Court on Thursday announced that it is suspending Rudy Giuliani’s law license.

The court concluded that Giuliani made “demonstrably false and misleading statements” to courts, lawmakers and the public when he was representing former President Trump and his campaign in their failed effort to overturn the 2020 election results.
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  #366  
Old 24.06.2021, 20:51
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Guiliani was bitten by his own conspiracy beliefs;
That's not a conspiracy, the ruling is fact. Please stay on topic.
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  #367  
Old 25.06.2021, 07:47
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

One thing is certain: this thread has a great future...


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There's also an age component. Cool and open-minded friends which I've met and hanged out a lot in our 20s , somehow have become suburban dads believers of conspiracy theories.
.
Interesting phenomenon, I haven't noticed it among my friends. It's quite the opposite actually, we'd make fun of these types.

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I feel a bit more trapped in CH because The middle-class is quite aggressive pushing their values into everyone and the limit to be seen as eccentric wealthy is too damned high. Back at home, it's easier to reach the status of crazy but has some money, thus let him be.
Not necessarily the middle class, the culture in general is against showing opulence and/or extravagancies. You'll notice that even the filthy rich are quite discreet here. There might be colourful characters but they're not given tons of space like in other places, just for the fun and ratings.
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Old 25.06.2021, 09:40
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Interesting phenomenon, I haven't noticed it among my friends. It's quite the opposite actually, we'd make fun of these types.
Maybe I'm biased after seeing my 40 something brother fall for political conspiracy theories.

About personal self-restraint ingrained in local culture, thanks for the insight, I have not found the words to explain but yes....what you say makes sense. And, that's one of the reasons I keep planning how to get out of CH. Now with the 100% remote work at least I can spend 3 months a year out of here
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  #369  
Old 25.06.2021, 10:40
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Maybe I'm biased after seeing my 40 something brother fall for political conspiracy theories.
Axa, can you please please give an ex. of his beliefs ,the ones you find 'conspiring' ?

I'm still trying to find out, how come to believe how the government/politics/politicians/corporations are doing a good job, working for our wellbeing,progress is more acceptable than the opposite
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  #370  
Old 25.06.2021, 10:43
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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I am absolutely aware that Marxism, at least on a theoretical level, needs the concept of "enemy of the state" or "enemy of the people" to survive. The enemy is not primarily an external superpower threatening war but an internal conspiracy of people who do not share the Marxist ideal and who must be rooted out.
amogles, I dont know how you came up with this one but MusicChick you really agree with this ??
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Old 25.06.2021, 11:14
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Axa, can you please please give an ex. of his beliefs ,the ones you find 'conspiring' ?

I'm still trying to find out, how come to believe how the government/politics/politicians/corporations are doing a good job, working for our wellbeing,progress is more acceptable than the opposite
I was born during an hyperinflation decade at home. We've never had what you could call a good government. Even though, my parents thrived. My sister, brother are doing fine. Even before living in Switzerland I was doing fine.

My niece was born, daughter of my brother, and today everything's wrong because the government. Puny attempts of Mexican government to increase tax collection are seen as confiscating people's wealth. I call them puny attempts because a good accountant is able to do something about it. Somehow, my brother lives in a fantasy world where THEY can track all your money movements, THEY will confiscate your home. I talked about making a medium-term plan to go back to Mexico in 5 years and he called me crazy because COMMUNISM is coming!!!

Just for starters, my brother has still not talked to an accountant to make a good strategy Second, communism is not coming. We're to unruly and disorganized for that Third, if you look at the history books there has not been a decade of political and economical stability in centuries back in Mexico. So, why fall prey to fear today? In the family we have a pride of smooth seas never made skilled sailors or something like that.

So, doing nothing but talking in spite of things supposedly going bad is what I call being trapped in conspiracy thinking. That feeling of being powerless and giving up your personal agency. I don't get into the destitute bandwagon because friends and family are politicians at different levels and damn it......I'm part of a corporation with some mgmt duties. I laugh at conspiracy because according to conspiracy I'm part of THEM. And no, I'm neither filthy rich nor have been invited to islands full of children sexual slaves

PS. Governments where people input matter do care about education, nutrition, health and more or less the environment, basic things to have a good life. My plan is get back home, live slower, and do something about the air and water pollution. But, maybe I'm just crazy for believing in agency. Maybe I should be more normal and complain about how others control my life. Kinda hard as an 80s kids still drunk in propaganda where the individual can make a difference.
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  #372  
Old 25.06.2021, 12:25
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

Axa ,thx for sharing ) From what you've described I must say I do agree with your brother and maybe you should try to see things from a different angle

Yes, of course in each previous decade , it wasnt any different, corruption, bureaucracy, scandals, corruption, ppl stuggling with wages etc ...

Then again, if we look at certain elements like economy.. things are pretty bad for everyone , including the usa, europe ,australia.. For ex. we dont get much to hear about how salaries havent increased in the usa since 1980ties..

https://www.epi.org/publication/amer...qual-growth-2/
For the last four decades, the United States has been experiencing a slow-motion wage crisis. From the end of World War II through the late 1970s, the U.S. economy generated rapid wage growth that was widely shared.1 Since 1979, however, average wage growth has decelerated sharply, with the biggest declines in wage growth at the bottom and the middle. The same pattern of slow and unequal growth continues in the ongoing recovery from the Great Recession.

https://hbr.org/2017/10/why-wages-ar...ing-in-america
Since the early 1970s, hourly inflation-adjusted wages received by the typical worker have barely risen, growing only 0.2% per year. Assigning relative responsibility to the policies and economic forces that underlie rising inequality or declining labor share is a challenge. International trade and technological progress have played significant roles, putting downward pressure on the wages of low-skilled workers. We also know that educated workers have fared better; the wages received by those who finished their education with a four-year college degree grew from 134% of high school graduates’ wages to 168%.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...uce-more-wrong

So , things arent good even for the U.S. considered the world's largest economy.. When it comes to Mexico things aren't different . Think just for a one thing... Having Vicente Fox as a president, which seemed so fabulous knowng his CV ... is it a conspiracy if I point out how this ex cocacola CEO has turned the country into a big vending soft drinks machine (MX had the largest number of sales points in the whole world) , pushed the big multinationals sell their pasta, pizza, ..and by the 2010 , consumation of beans has dropped by 50% (and other vegetables) and what we got is MX facing obesity crisis,diabetis,etc and 1l of a soft drink was cheaper than 1l of water.

I remember the fight Alejandro Calvillo had to put up and they tried several times to raise taxes for soft drinks, candy and the horror these people had to go through ... (Pegasus scandal and stuff like that) ..
So , it aint easy at all , for some reason, when you(some people) try to do a good thing ? where is the goverment actually ? And then, if the goverment is letting things happen like this (children getting amputated because of a diab2 linked to excessive sugar) and prosecute people who fight this ..then how can one not be against the goverment (or the system) and if one gets the label - conspiracist- then be it , since I prefer to be seen by the gouverment (all known liars, corrupted network ppl) as the conspiracist in this case
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  #373  
Old 25.06.2021, 12:29
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

About communism.. No one, not even people who come from countries that had communism know what really that means. And everyone has a different impression of it, most of it based on some form of a propaganda.

But, what people like your brother think is also that China 'communism' .. we all feel how the new era is just about to come and in China it's already like that... tracking, QR everywhere, drones used to scare people.. tracking ..
Generally , all that is true and it's not conspiracy at all .
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  #374  
Old 25.06.2021, 13:40
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

A rising Conspiracy belief is that Trump will be reinstated as US President in August. Department of Homeland Security(DHS) is concerned there may be violence

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The conspiracy theory that Donald Trump will be reinstated as president in August has sparked concerns at the DHS, a top official there told members of Congress on Wednesday.

DHS is following discussions of the topic online among extremist communities. Department officials are highly concerned about it because it fuels the false narrative that the election was rigged — a narrative that may trigger a violent response from extremists.
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  #375  
Old 25.06.2021, 14:39
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

His daughter and son-in-law are distancing themselves from him, according to the Times, because all he talks about is how the election was rigged against him.
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Old 25.06.2021, 15:21
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Axa ,thx for sharing ) From what you've described I must say I do agree with your brother and maybe you should try to see things from a different angle.
Maybe, but I cannot see myself as a victim, I have agency.

Don't know, perhaps when life gives you several unfavorable outcomes in a row, people loses confidence, and finds solace in conspiracies. Because there's no one actively trying to screw you up. They're just making money and sometimes there's collateral damage.
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  #377  
Old 29.06.2021, 08:40
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Because this enemy shores up and justifies the entire system, including all the controls and repression, if ever they do succeed in wiping such an enemy out, a new one must be defined immediately. This is where the media play a role.
It is well visible - no accountability to justify outrage, it is always a group thing. Volume speaks, no argument. Random accusations.

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And so they set about wiping out aristocrats, doctors, farmers who are too successful, Jews, all in the name of maintaining the narrative.
Shaming people for achieving something is a way to excuse one's feeling of incompetence or lack of investment. It is a short sighted negativism and it sets people even more back. Why compare oneself when it prevents from achieving goals, it is not logical. Celebrating people's victories inspires, motivates. I see that probably as the only genuine altruism that is around. Being genuinely selflessly happy for somebody else's achieved goals.

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I think that in the 1980s in the west there was probably a greater diversity of opinions than there is today..
We still have independent media back home, they are quite hilarious. Google reflex.cz, the covers of this journal are so famous. You don't have to open the journal to understand

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The age of the internet has led to many of these fringes blowing their own trumpet too much, with the being expelled from the mainstream as result.
Nah, they would have been cancelled no matter what and for whatever would suit, it was a matter of time only.

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amogles, I dont know how you came up with this one but MusicChick you really agree with this ??
I'd prefer not to since it is a depressing analysis. But yeah. Correct at most points.
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  #378  
Old 29.06.2021, 13:36
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Last time I checked all phones, that one can buy, have already been manufactured.
Wrong. Some were grown organically and put their by aliens. But the government's trying to keep it quiet.
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Old 29.06.2021, 13:51
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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I remember the fight Alejandro Calvillo had to put up and they tried several times to raise taxes for soft drinks, candy and the horror these people had to go through ... (Pegasus scandal and stuff like that) ..
So , it aint easy at all , for some reason, when you(some people) try to do a good thing ? where is the goverment actually ? And then, if the goverment is letting things happen like this (children getting amputated because of a diab2 linked to excessive sugar) and prosecute people who fight this ..then how can one not be against the goverment (or the system) and if one gets the label - conspiracist- then be it , since I prefer to be seen by the gouverment (all known liars, corrupted network ppl) as the conspiracist in this case
@FairDinkum, there are fair expectations and scrutiny from the public or civil society representatives in regards to how govs manage public health policies and other issues, and then there are crazy conspiracy theories and what not. Wouldn't mix up different things.
Covid microchip vaccine theory is one of the craziest around.
If I am to believe these guys it started from an innocuous Reddit thread lol.

https://www.theverge.com/22516823/co...plained-reddit

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Old 14.07.2021, 00:02
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

Does this count as raising the bar? I thought maybe its possible that the wild types blowing up 5G masts and setting fire to them too are actually there to associate concern about electro magnetic smog with a lunatic fringe so that it is never bought into the pubic forum to be debated
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