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  #41  
Old 19.02.2020, 14:37
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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. . .
It's been done for years in the U.K. -but never in a 'brain-washing' way but mainly as a public information service or as part of a health awareness campaign.

The Archers, a BBC Radio 4 soap set around a village in 'Herefordshire' (trust me on that) was originally produced to relay new farming information to farmers and other landworkers.
. . .
What opinion do the Archers have, incidentally, on the subject of the BBC Radio/TV Licence fee ?
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  #42  
Old 19.02.2020, 14:42
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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What opinion do the Archers have, incidentally, on the subject of the BBC Radio/TV Licence fee ?
They don't have time for TV - they're farmers!
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  #43  
Old 25.02.2020, 09:57
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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It's a sad reality. Living in the Information Age seems to have turned into the Ignorance Age. And not the blissful type.

I'm in a slight state of panic and confusion, as the stupidity of conspiracy theorists has now spread to some of my family members.

Anti-vaxxers and climate "skeptics" are given a voice in mainstream media, as they're considered the "opposing side".

With regards to the US, I'm pretty certain Trump has had a massive contribution to the flourishing of this phenomenon. His entire speeches revolve around conspiracy theories. And facts are labelled as "fake news".

Given how most social media platform refuse to ban the nutjobs who try to instigate collective paranoia, is it reasonable to say that conspiracy views SHOULD NOT be protected by free speech?

The Supreme Court already ruled that yelling FIRE in a public space where no such danger is apparent, wasn't protected by the 1st amendment.

What about those who foster and spread fear about vaccines causing autism or death, those who claim climate-change is a hoax and other nasty stuff that's not worth repeating? Admittedly, conspiracy mongering produces much more severe consequences than a lunatic yelling out "fire" in a cinema.

Thoughts everyone?
If you were from a former communist society like I am you would embrace people who think differently and goes against the mainstream thoughts.

I will admit that there is a fine line between being critical to mainstream information and conspiracy. Note that many "conspiracies" has shown to be true. So it's not all bad.

I for example don't believe the hype over climate change, I believe that we of course need to improve things and that is not really a debate. But the hysteria over co2 is just laughable.

People like me who have lived in societies where you couldn't say what you thought know the value of free speech. Something most of you westerners don't understand, you take everything for granted and more than often believe everything that is said by the politicians and media.
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  #44  
Old 25.02.2020, 10:25
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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If you were from a former communist society like I am you would embrace people who think differently and goes against the mainstream thoughts.

I will admit that there is a fine line between being critical to mainstream information and conspiracy. Note that many "conspiracies" has shown to be true. So it's not all bad.

I for example don't believe the hype over climate change, I believe that we of course need to improve things and that is not really a debate. But the hysteria over co2 is just laughable.

People like me who have lived in societies where you couldn't say what you thought know the value of free speech. Something most of you westerners don't understand, you take everything for granted and more than often believe everything that is said by the politicians and media.
Well, people from communist and ex-communist regimes indeed value free speech, or at least Swiss passports.....vote with your feet and all that https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/who-wan...lians/45572170
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Old 25.02.2020, 10:56
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Well, people from communist and ex-communist regimes indeed value free speech, or at least Swiss passports.....vote with your feet and all that https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/who-wan...lians/45572170
I sometime say, communism never lost, it just moved to the west
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  #46  
Old 25.02.2020, 11:04
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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I sometime say, communism never lost, it just moved to the west
It has strongly declined in the west over the last decades.
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  #47  
Old 25.02.2020, 11:23
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Well, people from communist and ex-communist regimes indeed value free speech, or at least Swiss passports.....vote with your feet and all that https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/who-wan...lians/45572170
So combining the info in your link and the title of this thread, the solution is: Putin sent out his soldiers to infiltrate Switzerland.

Pretty smart move. He' got enough people and - if he manages to change the constitution to be life-long president - enough time to get it done.

Good thing Switzerland implemented the language barrier to becoming Swiss. At least we don't all need to learn Russian. Actually - assuming the Swiss government knew about the US/Germany misusing Crypto AG - that's probably why the language barrier was implemented, because they know what's coming. That again is very prescient.

Wow, that was easy. Amazing how quickly such a conspiracy web is woven.
__________________
be inventive!
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  #48  
Old 25.02.2020, 11:35
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Well, people from communist and ex-communist regimes indeed value free speech, or at least Swiss passports.....vote with your feet and all that https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/who-wan...lians/45572170
Apparently so do the Iraqis, Indians, Americans, Sri-Lankans and.....the rest of the world.

Last edited by greenmount; 25.02.2020 at 11:57.
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  #49  
Old 01.03.2020, 22:49
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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If you were from a former communist society like I am you would embrace people who think differently and goes against the mainstream thoughts.
Hey buddy, care to tell me since when does going against "mainstream thoughts" has become equivalent to going against scientific and empirical knowledge based on research???

Should we all start saying the earth is flat, just to flaunt about being "anti-mainstream"???

As Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama have said, you have the right to your own opinion, but you don't have the right to your own FACTS.

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I will admit that there is a fine line between being critical to mainstream information and conspiracy. Note that many "conspiracies" has shown to be true. So it's not all bad.
Not all bad...hmmm
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Beliefs such as this have caused irreparable damage to my family, with the vape trail person repeatedly posting 'advice' about alkaline water (?) and herbs curing cancer (...)
@Dario, do you even know what we are talking about? This thread isn't about political conspiracies from a few decades ago related to the Kennedy assassination, Area51 and aliens etc. which are indeed harmless.

This thread is about nutjobs like Alex Jones, who spread information such as Hilary Clinton running a child trafficking ring in the basement of a pizzeria. Or that victims of school shootings are hired actors. Or that chemicals in the water have turned most frogs gay and the US government wants to use those substances on humans.


Or fellow lunatic David Icke, who talks about vaccines as being part of the sinister agenda of reptilians, many of whom are Jewish in his eyes. Which most likely explains his fervent desire that Holocaust denialism should be taught in schools.

Disturbing or acceptable/innocent views?

I don't care about your personal past or what former regime you lived in.
Unhinged and erratic views should certainly NOT be protected by freedom of speech in the digital age. Most countries already punish all types of hate speech.
Most conspiracy theories today - antivaxxers, herbs curing cancer - are just as dangerous to a civilized society as racism and Holocaust denial.

I want a f%%king law that would severely punish any nutjob who would spread false and anti-scientific information.

As previously stated, yelling out FIRE when there is no such danger in any public area is considered a criminal offence even in the US.

Maybe you "freedom of speech" lovers will stop protecting conspiracy theorists once you have family members who try to cure their illness with alkaline water or other homeopathic bullsh!t.
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  #50  
Old 01.03.2020, 23:15
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Hey buddy, care to tell me since when does going against "mainstream thoughts" has become equivalent to going against scientific and empirical knowledge based on research???

Should we all start saying the earth is flat, just to flaunt about being "anti-mainstream"???

As Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama have said, you have the right to your own opinion, but you don't have the right to your own FACTS.

Not all bad...hmmm


@Dario, do you even know what we are talking about? This thread isn't about political conspiracies from a few decades ago related to the Kennedy assassination, Area51 and aliens etc. which are indeed harmless.

This thread is about nutjobs like Alex Jones, who spread information such as Hilary Clinton running a child trafficking ring in the basement of a pizzeria. Or that victims of school shootings are hired actors. Or that chemicals in the water have turned most frogs gay and the US government wants to use those substances on humans.


Or fellow lunatic David Icke, who talks about vaccines as being part of the sinister agenda of reptilians, many of whom are Jewish in his eyes. Which most likely explains his fervent desire that Holocaust denialism should be taught in schools.

Disturbing or acceptable/innocent views?

I don't care about your personal past or what former regime you lived in.
Unhinged and erratic views should certainly NOT be protected by freedom of speech in the digital age. Most countries already punish all types of hate speech.
Most conspiracy theories today - antivaxxers, herbs curing cancer - are just as dangerous to a civilized society as racism and Holocaust denial.

I want a f%%king law that would severely punish any nutjob who would spread false and anti-scientific information.

As previously stated, yelling out FIRE when there is no such danger in any public area is considered a criminal offence even in the US.

Maybe you "freedom of speech" lovers will stop protecting conspiracy theorists once you have family members who try to cure their illness with alkaline water or other homeopathic bullsh!t.
Sorry but your post seems unhinged (to use your words) and erratic...
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  #51  
Old 01.03.2020, 23:29
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Sorry but your post seems unhinged (to use your words) and erratic...
True.
On the other hand if you'd be scared to take your girlfriend to a pizzeria, had to avoid LA completely and Trump having access to that water, I mean WOW!
You'd want a law too. But then there would be that law ..... but are you sure about that water being harmless or are they just suppressing the truth?

I think I woke the neighbours with my laughter reading that bit. I don't want a law, I enjoy people's imagination too much.
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  #52  
Old 01.03.2020, 23:40
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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. . .
I want a f%%king law that would severely punish any nutjob who would spread false and anti-scientific information.
. . .
Indeed. And a Ministry of Truth to regulate the information gets into the public domain, or at least to assist Google, Facebook etc. in doing just that.
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Old 02.03.2020, 00:52
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Sorry but your post seems unhinged (to use your words) and erratic...
And your reply is a useless flame-baiting contribution...

I was expressing outrage over the issue of dangerous conspiracies that have reached and influenced older members of my family.
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Old 02.03.2020, 07:58
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Sorry but your post seems unhinged (to use your words) and erratic...
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And your reply is a useless flame-baiting contribution...

I was expressing outrage over the issue of dangerous conspiracies that have reached and influenced older members of my family.
Out of the 2 reactions I have a different opinion on what is flame baiting.

Please post without any personal attacks ?
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Old 02.03.2020, 11:43
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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As previously stated, yelling out FIRE when there is no such danger in any public area is considered a criminal offence even in the US.
as previously stated, that is not true. please stop spreading misinformation
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Old 02.03.2020, 12:05
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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The Supreme Court already ruled that yelling FIRE in a public space where no such danger is apparent, wasn't protected by the 1st amendment.
One of the greatest classics of Swiss lterature of all time is max Frisch's play, "Herr Biedermann und die Brandstifter". As the name implies, it's about arsonists. There is at least one scene in which people yell FIRE. Yes, in a theatre, which may well be packed.

In all the years that it has been performed, I am not aware that there was ever a stampede or that anybody was hurt.

It would be sad if the supreme court were to ban perfomances of that play.

Ironic even, as the play is a critical pastiche on the rise of nazism.
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Old 02.03.2020, 12:12
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Hey buddy, care to tell me since when does going against "mainstream thoughts" has become equivalent to going against scientific and empirical knowledge based on research???

Should we all start saying the earth is flat, just to flaunt about being "anti-mainstream"???

As Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama have said, you have the right to your own opinion, but you don't have the right to your own FACTS.

Not all bad...hmmm


@Dario, do you even know what we are talking about? This thread isn't about political conspiracies from a few decades ago related to the Kennedy assassination, Area51 and aliens etc. which are indeed harmless.

This thread is about nutjobs like Alex Jones, who spread information such as Hilary Clinton running a child trafficking ring in the basement of a pizzeria. Or that victims of school shootings are hired actors. Or that chemicals in the water have turned most frogs gay and the US government wants to use those substances on humans.


Or fellow lunatic David Icke, who talks about vaccines as being part of the sinister agenda of reptilians, many of whom are Jewish in his eyes. Which most likely explains his fervent desire that Holocaust denialism should be taught in schools.

Disturbing or acceptable/innocent views?

I don't care about your personal past or what former regime you lived in.
Unhinged and erratic views should certainly NOT be protected by freedom of speech in the digital age. Most countries already punish all types of hate speech.
Most conspiracy theories today - antivaxxers, herbs curing cancer - are just as dangerous to a civilized society as racism and Holocaust denial.

I want a f%%king law that would severely punish any nutjob who would spread false and anti-scientific information.

As previously stated, yelling out FIRE when there is no such danger in any public area is considered a criminal offence even in the US.

Maybe you "freedom of speech" lovers will stop protecting conspiracy theorists once you have family members who try to cure their illness with alkaline water or other homeopathic bullsh!t.

Well, get a history book and remember there were wars of religion around here: the Catholic Vs the Reformed cantons. They took their guts out literally for spreading "false information". The law that would severely punish any nutjob was burning Pastors of the other religion on the stake.

So, free speech it's about coexistence and not killing us each other violently. Grandpa drinking alkaline water for his prostate cancer is the smallest of the worries. I agree homeopathy is bad, but much worse has been done in the name of truth.
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Old 02.03.2020, 12:17
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Yes it can, and some people choose to not get chemo treatment in the hope to get a better last period of their life.

It all depends on how radiation one needs and what kind of cancer one has, but it can make people incredibly ill and feel much worse than they would without the treatment, and than the chance of survival, sometimes chemo is just to slow down the inevitable, sometimes it only gives a 10% chance of succes, I fully understand people who decide "it's been good, I'll take it as it comes and no chemo for me."
Sometimes it is even done when the chances of survival are pretty close to nil. They may extend the patient's life by a few months but at the cost of great suffering.
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Old 02.03.2020, 15:39
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Grandpa drinking alkaline water for his prostate cancer is the smallest of the worries.
Okay, so a grandfather who is basically commiting suicide because he was brainwashed by some lunatic anti-vaxxer doesn't really strike a corde with y'all. Guess there's no point in appealing to empathy.

How about this, the resurgence of diseases we thought eliminated:
Measles Cases In US Surge To Record High As Anti-Vax Campaigns Spread Misinformation

Why anti-vaxxers aren’t just killing their own kids — they're putting others in danger, too

The common denominator of most of these outbreaks - which happened in DOZENS of US cities - is that the respective communities were heavily influenced by anti-vaxxers.

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Well, get a history book and remember there were wars of religion around here: the Catholic Vs the Reformed cantons.
Get a history book and remember that unhinged speech can lead to GENOCIDE.
Or in the current age, it can even lead to epidemics.

The fact that some of you are way more concerned about free speech than about the dangers and health risks posed by reluctance to vaccinate, is disconcerting.

You are actually defending the right of certain individuals to propagate falsehoods and ignorance. When your "boundless free speech" threatens the health of children and can destabilize cities, doesn't it make you question your judgement in the slightest?

Also, I'm not proposing we should turn into China, but in case you haven't noticed, "theories" and ideas that endanger progress and societal welfare - cough cough racism/nazism/antisemitism - are already punishable and prohibited by law in most advanced countries.

Basically what I'm saying is that anti-vaccine propaganda, among other conspiracies, should be included among the "dangerous ideas that don't belong in the public arena".

Maybe in the near future one of your relatives will be influenced and targeted by these movements. Or your kid will happen to go to a school with a measles outbreak. Then and only then will your mind finally be able comprehend how much harm a "silly conspiracy" can bring upon those around you.
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Old 02.03.2020, 15:52
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Sometimes it is even done when the chances of survival are pretty close to nil. They may extend the patient's life by a few months but at the cost of great suffering.
That's the patient's choice for as long as they are able to make the choice. Patients are also counselled about palliative care options. We met our nephew's palliative care counsellor a few times in passing, as these care sessions are always one to one with an adult patient and totally private, so her appearance was our cue to all leave the room for a few hours.
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