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  #61  
Old 02.03.2020, 15:52
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

Antivaxxers are a problem, but the problem can be minimized without the censorship of ideas. Increasing the vaccination rate is a legitimate goal, censorship of ideas is not a legitimate tool. There are other tools at hand. Many countries around the words have laws on compulsory vaccination. Here in CH some discussion has started about fines to parents that don't vaccinate kids or charging the hospital bill to the people that arrives with measles at the hospital https://www.blick.ch/news/politik/na...d15305003.html In some cases around the world, when a child is hurt due to parents refusing vaccination, parents are prosecuted for child neglect.

The point is that actions are judgable and punishable, the exchange of ideas is not. Letting politicians decide what can be or cannot be said is denying individuals their liberty of choosing what to read, watch or listen to.

Nazism/antisemitism/terrorism propaganda is incitement, encouraging someone to commit a crime. Once again, most countries around the world have a law against incitement and free speech does not covers it.

I seriously doubt the exchange of antivaxxer ideas can be considered incitement to crime. Dumb for sure, a minor fault subject to fines too, but as bad as incitement? If you're motivated try to explain how antivaxxers are inciting other people to commit a crime.

Last edited by Axa; 02.03.2020 at 16:03. Reason: grammar, damned grammar errors
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  #62  
Old 02.03.2020, 15:55
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

Methinks that the rise in conspiracy theories is due to our technology and ways of thinking that are starting to outstrip the mental capacity of (let´s say) the less educated to process.
If there is an easy way to explain things that confuse and confound people then they will take it as it will save them from actually having to think.
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  #63  
Old 02.03.2020, 16:03
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Hey buddy, care to tell me since when does going against "mainstream thoughts" has become equivalent to going against scientific and empirical knowledge based on research???

Should we all start saying the earth is flat, just to flaunt about being "anti-mainstream"???
The earth was flat, until Pythagoras came along with his round earth 'conspiracy theory'.
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  #64  
Old 02.03.2020, 16:48
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Should we all start saying the earth is flat, just to flaunt about being "anti-mainstream"???
Whether or not the Earth is flat is a question of your reference and coordinate system.

Architects and structural engineers, for example, use a system of coordinates in which the earth is functionally flat. This leads to a negligably small errors in their calculations, but I never heard of a building collapsing because of it. And it simplifies their calculations by a mile, as well as the risk of them making an error. So the assumption of a flat Earth is apparently good enough for most people. There are way more architects on this planet than there are people who design spacecraft.

Or when was the last time you saw somebody being ridiculed for using latitude and longitude? Would you tell them that was an ignorant and backward way to express their position?

On the other hand, most people who deny the Earth is flat probably don't realize that space itself is also curved, messing up classical trigonometry. And even of those who accept that, many don't realize that the Earth itself even causes some of that curvature? But what do scientists know about that stuff, right?

So could it be that some types of ignorance are acceptable and others are not?

Maybe a little knowledge can indeed be a dangerous thing?
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  #65  
Old 02.03.2020, 17:36
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Or when was the last time you saw somebody being ridiculed for using latitude and longitude? Would you tell them that was an ignorant and backward way to express their position?
Latitude & Longitudes are circular and angular respectively, and hence are based on Earth being round. No reason to be ridiculed.


But yes, anything can be justified. That is what i takeaway from your response. I am glad that architects don't plan flight paths
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  #66  
Old 02.03.2020, 19:00
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Latitude & Longitudes are circular and angular respectively, and hence are based on Earth being round. No reason to be ridiculed.


But yes, anything can be justified. That is what i takeaway from your response. I am glad that architects don't plan flight paths
Well, really what i am trying to say is that reality is extremely complex, maybe infinitely so. Any scientific model has certain simplifications. It leaves out and ignores certain things that we know about and maybe even certain things we don't know about. Some models contain more simplification than others. To say that somebody's model is incorrect is thus missing the point. The question is, is the model good enough for purpose? Are the simplifications justified?

For an architect, a flat earth is good enough.
If you're a pilot, it's necessary to consider the curvature of the earth, but you can still safely ignore the curvature of space.
If you're an astro-physicist you also need to consider the curvature of space.

To ridicule somebody because their model is simpler than yours is just ignorant IMHO.
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  #67  
Old 02.03.2020, 19:14
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Well, really what i am trying to say is that reality is extremely complex, maybe infinitely so. Any scientific model has certain simplifications. It leaves out and ignores certain things that we know about and maybe even certain things we don't know about. Some models contain more simplification than others. To say that somebody's model is incorrect is thus missing the point. The question is, is the model good enough for purpose? Are the simplifications justified?

For an architect, a flat earth is good enough.
If you're a pilot, it's necessary to consider the curvature of the earth, but you can still safely ignore the curvature of space.
If you're an astro-physicist you also need to consider the curvature of space.

To ridicule somebody because their model is simpler than yours is just ignorant IMHO.
It doesn‘t change the facts though. Earth is shaped like a potato.
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  #68  
Old 05.03.2020, 19:43
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

Like it or not - the reason why people are starting to question established truths is because the rise of the internet allows the wide public to discover that the established media have been lying to them since forever, though admittedly by ignorance rather than by malice.

Not to say that antivaxers or flat earthers are on to something, but if you aren't questioning what people tell you then you're as big of a tool as they are.

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Methinks that the rise in conspiracy theories is due to our technology and ways of thinking that are starting to outstrip the mental capacity of (let´s say) the less educated to process.
If there is an easy way to explain things that confuse and confound people then they will take it as it will save them from actually having to think.
Practically all printed media intended for regular consumption is written by journalists, not experts.
Reading news paper articles is literally being spoonfed a world view from someone who is an expert in no subject.
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  #69  
Old 07.03.2020, 15:18
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Like it or not - the reason why people are starting to question established truths is because the rise of the internet allows the wide public to discover that the established media have been lying to them since forever, though admittedly by ignorance rather than by malice.

Not to say that antivaxers or flat earthers are on to something, but if you aren't questioning what people tell you then you're as big of a tool as they are.



Practically all printed media intended for regular consumption is written by journalists, not experts.
Reading news paper articles is literally being spoonfed a world view from someone who is an expert in no subject.
Uuuuh Yeees, that would be one of the delivery systems for that what I was trying to make clear... you DID understand it didn´t you?
Having said that the established media is not lying, they just tell the truth the way they want it to be.

Last edited by slammer; 07.03.2020 at 15:57.
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  #70  
Old 18.04.2020, 22:26
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Indeed. I saw some ridiculous conspiracy theories lately, one even went as far as suggesting a Swiss firm being was being run by certain foreign intelligence services to ensure compromised encryption technology landed on the open market. Such conspiracy theories must be systematically silenced to avoid unnecessary negative reactions and generally misleading gullible people with false information. What will these conspiracy theorists think of next? Perhaps a Swiss pharmaceutical firm being secretly operated by a foreign intelligence service to produce spiked vaccines for use in some enemy country ? Who knows ?
It’s amost like we can uncover actual conspiracies

Agree with op, and being a past believer into this mess till i dug so deep i found tricksters behind it, from just trolling, to outright nasty groups.

Vaccinations work
Climate change and our actions Involved in It are real

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Like it or not - the reason why people are starting to question established truths is because the rise of the internet allows the wide public to discover that the established media have been lying to them since forever, though admittedly by ignorance rather than by malice.

Not to say that antivaxers or flat earthers are on to something, but if you aren't questioning what people tell you then you're as big of a tool as they are.



Practically all printed media intended for regular consumption is written by journalists, not experts.
Reading news paper articles is literally being spoonfed a world view from someone who is an expert in no subject.
I always thought the internet would allow access to information normally reserved to the elite, it’s still true. What amazes me is how that ability is manipulated, it’s is amost always worth checking any actual attached scientific papers conspiracy theorists try to spread around, more often than not, you’ll find actually they’re refuting the crap and these idiots are furious about it.

Last edited by Guest; 19.04.2020 at 10:13. Reason: Merging successive posts
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  #71  
Old 19.04.2020, 09:03
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Whether or not the Earth is flat is a question of your reference and coordinate system.
And whether you live on a mountain.
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  #72  
Old 19.04.2020, 11:00
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Like it or not - the reason why people are starting to question established truths is because the rise of the internet allows the wide public to discover that the established media have been lying to them since forever, though admittedly by ignorance rather than by malice.
No, it's because the conspiracy theorists have a much bigger audience of idiots and those easily-led.

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Practically all printed media intended for regular consumption is written by journalists, not experts.
Reading news paper articles is literally being spoonfed a world view from someone who is an expert in no subject.
The web also also allows everyone easy access to peer-reviewed scientific articles written by scientists who also happen to be journalists. Generally one is the former first and the latter second.

These people are experts in their subjects.
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  #73  
Old 19.04.2020, 12:57
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

[Pedant] The earth is not, flat nor round. It is an oblate spheroid.

And the peak of Mt. Everest is not the furthest point from the earth’s centre. That honour goes to to the peak of Mount Chimborazo in the Andes.

[/Pedant]
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  #74  
Old 19.04.2020, 14:01
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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It has strongly declined in the west over the last decades.

If communism had had better cars (or cars at all) and better TV-shows, things might have turned out differently.
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  #75  
Old 19.04.2020, 15:32
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...
That's what they want you to think.
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  #76  
Old 19.04.2020, 22:07
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

Whilst we are at it- does anyone actually believe that Boris Johnson was at death's door with Covid19?
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  #77  
Old 19.04.2020, 22:28
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Whilst we are at it- does anyone actually believe that Boris Johnson was at death's door with Covid19?
No. And his health was never really reported as such. But I do believe he was seriously ill and the action taken was appropriate. I don't care about him, but I do think it's a good thing that the elected leader of a powerful nation didn't snuff it.
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  #78  
Old 19.04.2020, 22:32
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Whilst we are at it- does anyone actually believe that Boris Johnson was at death's door with Covid19?
I'm pretty sure that he was on the ICU just for fun.
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  #79  
Old 20.04.2020, 07:18
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

How is the reborn Boris going to act?
Will he have grown up?
Will he plow money into the NHS?
Will he back-track on Brexit?
Has his brain been infiltrated by the chinese?
It is of course a chinese virus - maybe designed to replicate in western minds ands render them susceptible to coded messaging in Huawei adverts.
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  #80  
Old 20.04.2020, 08:48
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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How is the reborn Boris going to act?
Will he have grown up?
No
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Will he plow money into the NHS?
No
Quote:
Will he back-track on Brexit?
No
Quote:
Has his brain been infiltrated by the chinese?
Yes
Quote:
It is of course a chinese virus - maybe designed to replicate in western minds ands render them susceptible to coded messaging in Huawei adverts.
It was 5G wot done that.
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