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Old 07.06.2021, 19:57
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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To play devils advocate, once China realised they had a potentially crippling virus in their country they would have had the options to either protect the world take the hit themselves (and prolong their efforts to become the worlds superpower) or let the virus spread so that the whole world is affected, is it really that far fetched to think they may have wanted to spread the virus?
Just because it is possible it doesn't mean it's true, you know that too. If they had been more transparent at the beginning perhaps we wouldn't have had this discussion now.

Anyway, imo even if it was a lab-leak it was by accident or incompetence, lack of security, etc. Reminds me of Chernobyl in a way. The communist regime back then tried to cover their asses for weeks. This is what they do.
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  #162  
Old 07.06.2021, 21:45
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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The Chinese government also locked up doctors who tried to warn the rest of the world about the virus as well as withheld information from the WHO long enough for it to spread internationally.

From a Machiavellian point of view it’d be quite a brilliant move.
From a criminal point of view too.
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  #163  
Old 07.06.2021, 22:27
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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The Chinese government also locked up doctors who tried to warn the rest of the world about the virus as well as withheld information from the WHO long enough for it to spread internationally.

From a Machiavellian point of view it’d be quite a brilliant move.
"Machiavellian intelligence" and "Chimpanzee Politics" whole the whole new meaning with Trump as president - more "literal" I'd say
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  #164  
Old 09.06.2021, 15:49
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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I'm not saying it happened one way or the other, and have never said so. As long as the CCP are in charge of the evidence, it's likely we'll never know one way or the other. What I have a problem with is how even to suggest this as a possibility was shut down by mainstream media and the tech giants. And let's be blunt, the reason why it was so important to "prove" this was a conspiracy theory, was because President Trump said the virus came from a lab.

I'm not looking for a conspiracy, I'm looking for an apology, or rather a mea culpa from all those who shut down the debate, and an acknowledgement of the damage they're causing!

Just to look at the bigger picture for a moment, IF this the lab leak is true then MSM and tech giants censorship will have aided one of the biggest cover-ups in modern history, and ironically in the name of preventing the spread of misinformation.

Here's the thing, right at the beginning of this pandemic there were experts who were talking about "gain of function" viral research being carried out in Wuhan, or how spikes in the proteins of the virus didn't look "normal", and to a man/woman, they were dismissed as crackpots or jokers. Now it turns out that there is evidence that the Wuhan lab, may have been conducting “gain of function” research! I don't think the problem lies with right wing nut jobs, but rather those who dismiss anyone who doesn't follow the narrative as a right wing nut job.
Oh look - the main source of the Lab leak theory has backtracked

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A Nobel prize-winning US biologist, who has been widely quoted describing a “smoking gun” to support the thesis that Covid-19 was genetically modified and escaped from a Wuhan lab, has said he overstated the case.

In recent days, however, Baltimore has told a fellow researcher, the scientific journal Nature and the LA Times that – while he had been quoted accurately in the bulletin – he should not have used the phrase “smoking gun” and was uncertain what the feature proved regarding the origins of the virus – natural or otherwise.

In an email exchange with the Los Angeles Times, Baltimore conceded he had overstated the case and that he had an open mind on the matter.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ab-leak-theory
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  #165  
Old 09.06.2021, 16:06
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Oh look - the main source of the Lab leak theory has backtracked


https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ab-leak-theory
Indeed the main source. Before May 2021 nobody thought it could be leaked from a lab.
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  #166  
Old 09.06.2021, 16:14
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Indeed the main source. Before May 2021 nobody thought it could be leaked from a lab.
Sorry, then "ther recent revival of the lab leak theory".
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  #167  
Old 16.06.2021, 16:34
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Indeed the main source. Before May 2021 nobody thought it could be leaked from a lab.

Ahh no. It was quite obvious from the very beginning.



No one explains it better than Jon Stewart. This was suprising that he would do this to his friend, and ordained minister of the woke cult, Stephan Colbert. Poor guy, looks like he got punched in the face.


The part about the "outbreak of chocolatey goodness near Hershey, P.A" had me rolling.

Jon please come back.




Last edited by California Dreamer; 16.06.2021 at 16:45.
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  #168  
Old 16.06.2021, 20:35
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Jon please come back.
This!

Gone are the happy days when comedy was actually funny, outright hilarious sometimes:




... and while we're on the topic of "pizza" ...

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  #169  
Old 16.06.2021, 21:09
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

I never thought I would think that that having Jon Stewart back would be a good thing! But what a great return to late night TV... I wonder if we will ever see him on Colbert again?!?
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  #170  
Old 17.06.2021, 08:55
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Ahh no. It was quite obvious from the very beginning.



No one explains it better than Jon Stewart. This was suprising that he would do this to his friend, and ordained minister of the woke cult, Stephan Colbert. Poor guy, looks like he got punched in the face.


The part about the "outbreak of chocolatey goodness near Hershey, P.A" had me rolling.

Jon please come back.

He's not explaining anything, he's making some assumptions that literally everyone could have made. And he's a tad too uhh, excitable, which doesn't make him look like someone I'd like to watch more, but hey ho, each to their own. Now proving one's hypothesis.....that's more difficult. Till then....I prefer to go with the official explanation.
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  #171  
Old 17.06.2021, 09:46
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Well, many of those people weren't simply suggesting that the virus COULD have been leaked from the Wuhan lab. They were stating that it WAS leaked or was intentionally created in the lab and then intentionally released to the public, and there was no evidence to support that claim. So if you want to talk about a "closed mind," you should acknowledge the inability to recognize the difference between suggesting something could have happened and stating something as being fact.

Even still today, there isn't really that much evidence to support there having been a leak from the lab.

From your link (the second one):

"None of this proves that the pandemic started in the Wuhan lab, of course: it's entirely possible that it did not."


As we know, Coronaviruses have existed for a very long time, and they tend to mutate. And the virus (or an early mutation of it) existed in China in 2012 when it was discovered among the miners working in bat caves. And a few researchers from the Wuhan lab being sick in November, 2019 does not mean that they were the only ones sick with the virus in Wuhan or in China at that time. There is actually more evidence that it existed in Wuhan and China for quite a while before November, 2019 and before it was diagnosed as being Covid-19 and before a red flag was raised in terms of a massive outbreak there, with a new virus.

So this lab leak theory emerged from a group of anonymous "internet sleuths" that go by the name of DRASTIC who based their theory on old research papers that they found online, including one that mentions the miners who became sick from the bat caves in China in 2012. It is therefore already evident that the virus can be transmitted to humans by bats (as well as other animals). But what DRASTIC did was take their premise that the virus was spread via a leak from the Wuhan lab and then looked for information online in order to self-validate their theory, and chose to ignore information that contradicted it, including the fact that coronaviruses have already spread from bats to humans in China in the past, that coronaviruses have existed in China in the past, and that they tend to mutate, over time. They also chose to ignore the fact that it was not only the three researchers at the Wuhan lab that had become sick with an "unknown virus" as early as November, 2019.

According to this paper, the Covid virus was circulating in China for months before it was detected in Wuhan:

Novel Coronavirus Circulated Undetected Months before First COVID-19 Cases in Wuhan
https://health.ucsd.edu/news/release...han-china.aspx

"Wertheim noted that even as SARS-CoV-2 was circulating in China in the fall of 2019, the researchers’ model suggests it was doing so at low levels until at least December of that year."

So if you really want to NOT be closed-minded about it, you have to also be willing to recognize the evidence that exists that the virus may NOT have been leaked from a lab in Wuhan and that it may have emerged in China as a natural mutation of a virus that is known to have already existed there as early as 2012.
I think what really chafes so many people is that the lab theory group was really two subgroups. The small minority like president Trump who seemed to really push for the idea and the rest who considered it a possibility. However, the debate was completely shut down by people who wanted the natural evolution idea to be true. This side too was highly political, saying anything else is laughable. Whether it’s not done for the purpose of anti-asian discrimination or because they are afraid of reprisal by china is different by the actor involved.
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  #172  
Old 17.06.2021, 09:51
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Ahh no. It was quite obvious from the very beginning.

No one explains it better than Jon Stewart. This was suprising that he would do this to his friend, and ordained minister of the woke cult, Stephan Colbert. Poor guy, looks like he got punched in the face.

The part about the "outbreak of chocolatey goodness near Hershey, P.A" had me rolling.

Jon please come back.

You have to imagine that only a month ago this video would have been removed by Facebook. As good as this video it, it's easy to be experts after the event, I'd have had more respect had they done this in summer 2020!

As a reminder of how sure people were that this was a conspiracy theory, look what even people on this forum were writing.

https://www.englishforum.ch/3279461-post55.html
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  #173  
Old 17.06.2021, 10:43
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

IMHO there are such things as bio warfare labs and I've posted it from the beginning
https://www.englishforum.ch/3140864-post55.html
Let's all not act so surprised.
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  #174  
Old 17.06.2021, 11:02
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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As a reminder of how sure people were that this was a conspiracy theory, look what even people on this forum were writing.

https://www.englishforum.ch/3279461-post55.html
Forum archeology?

Guess what: people on this forum write many things. As a general rule take everything with a pinch of salt.
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  #175  
Old 17.06.2021, 11:11
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

Another conspiracy theory doing the rounds in the U.S. is with white evangelical Christians who are linking vaccines to the "mark of the beast" (whatever that means - perhaps someone on the forum knowledgeable about this fantasy world could enlighten me).

Anyway, nearly 50% of these people have no plans to get vaccinated compared with only 10% of atheists.

That's not going to help herd immunity.
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  #176  
Old 17.06.2021, 11:27
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Another conspiracy theory doing the rounds in the U.S. is with white evangelical Christians who are linking vaccines to the "mark of the beast" (whatever that means - perhaps someone on the forum knowledgeable about this fantasy world could enlighten me).

Anyway, nearly 50% of these people have no plans to get vaccinated compared with only 10% of atheists.

That's not going to help herd immunity.
When I think about it, I have never ever met a black evangelical Christian. Are there any?
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  #177  
Old 17.06.2021, 11:32
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Another conspiracy theory doing the rounds in the U.S. is with white evangelical Christians who are linking vaccines to the "mark of the beast" (whatever that means - perhaps someone on the forum knowledgeable about this fantasy world could enlighten me).

Anyway, nearly 50% of these people have no plans to get vaccinated compared with only 10% of atheists.

That's not going to help herd immunity.
Seems like Covid works very well as an idiot filter
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  #178  
Old 17.06.2021, 11:34
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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When I think about it, I have never ever met a black evangelical Christian. Are there any?
There's probably a lot of people you haven't met. Doesn't mean they don't exist.

And to answer your question. Yes.
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  #179  
Old 17.06.2021, 11:45
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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When I think about it, I have never ever met a black evangelical Christian. Are there any?
I don't know about that, but I know of such a thing as black gospel. Do you think there's a link?
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  #180  
Old 17.06.2021, 11:50
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Seems like Covid works very well as an idiot filter

Careful - you may get an infraction.
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