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Old 17.02.2020, 22:10
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Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

It's a sad reality. Living in the Information Age seems to have turned into the Ignorance Age. And not the blissful type.

I'm in a slight state of panic and confusion, as the stupidity of conspiracy theorists has now spread to some of my family members.

Anti-vaxxers and climate "skeptics" are given a voice in mainstream media, as they're considered the "opposing side".

With regards to the US, I'm pretty certain Trump has had a massive contribution to the flourishing of this phenomenon. His entire speeches revolve around conspiracy theories. And facts are labelled as "fake news".

Given how most social media platform refuse to ban the nutjobs who try to instigate collective paranoia, is it reasonable to say that conspiracy views SHOULD NOT be protected by free speech?

The Supreme Court already ruled that yelling FIRE in a public space where no such danger is apparent, wasn't protected by the 1st amendment.

What about those who foster and spread fear about vaccines causing autism or death, those who claim climate-change is a hoax and other nasty stuff that's not worth repeating? Admittedly, conspiracy mongering produces much more severe consequences than a lunatic yelling out "fire" in a cinema.

Thoughts everyone?
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Old 17.02.2020, 22:58
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

Indeed. I saw some ridiculous conspiracy theories lately, one even went as far as suggesting a Swiss firm being was being run by certain foreign intelligence services to ensure compromised encryption technology landed on the open market. Such conspiracy theories must be systematically silenced to avoid unnecessary negative reactions and generally misleading gullible people with false information. What will these conspiracy theorists think of next? Perhaps a Swiss pharmaceutical firm being secretly operated by a foreign intelligence service to produce spiked vaccines for use in some enemy country ? Who knows ?
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Old 18.04.2020, 22:26
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Indeed. I saw some ridiculous conspiracy theories lately, one even went as far as suggesting a Swiss firm being was being run by certain foreign intelligence services to ensure compromised encryption technology landed on the open market. Such conspiracy theories must be systematically silenced to avoid unnecessary negative reactions and generally misleading gullible people with false information. What will these conspiracy theorists think of next? Perhaps a Swiss pharmaceutical firm being secretly operated by a foreign intelligence service to produce spiked vaccines for use in some enemy country ? Who knows ?
It’s amost like we can uncover actual conspiracies

Agree with op, and being a past believer into this mess till i dug so deep i found tricksters behind it, from just trolling, to outright nasty groups.

Vaccinations work
Climate change and our actions Involved in It are real

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Like it or not - the reason why people are starting to question established truths is because the rise of the internet allows the wide public to discover that the established media have been lying to them since forever, though admittedly by ignorance rather than by malice.

Not to say that antivaxers or flat earthers are on to something, but if you aren't questioning what people tell you then you're as big of a tool as they are.



Practically all printed media intended for regular consumption is written by journalists, not experts.
Reading news paper articles is literally being spoonfed a world view from someone who is an expert in no subject.
I always thought the internet would allow access to information normally reserved to the elite, it’s still true. What amazes me is how that ability is manipulated, it’s is amost always worth checking any actual attached scientific papers conspiracy theorists try to spread around, more often than not, you’ll find actually they’re refuting the crap and these idiots are furious about it.

Last edited by Guest; 19.04.2020 at 10:13. Reason: Merging successive posts
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Old 17.02.2020, 23:09
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Given how most social media platform refuse to ban the nutjobs who try to instigate collective paranoia, is it reasonable to say that conspiracy views SHOULD NOT be protected by free speech?
Stupidity itself should not get a ban and some conspiracies are indeed utterly dumb, others could a decade later to be considered the truth.
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The Supreme Court already ruled that yelling FIRE in a public space where no such danger is apparent, wasn't protected by the 1st amendment.

What about those who foster and spread fear about vaccines causing autism or death, those who claim climate-change is a hoax and other nasty stuff that's not worth repeating? Admittedly, conspiracy mongering produces much more severe consequences than a lunatic yelling out "fire" in a cinema.
Don't underestimate what causing panic can do with a crowd of people:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...es_and_crushes
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Old 17.02.2020, 23:22
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

If you want a good read on this topic try „how munbo jumbo conquered the world“ by Francis Wheen. It really puts things into perspective
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Old 18.02.2020, 06:50
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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is it reasonable to say that conspiracy views SHOULD NOT be protected by free speech?

Thoughts everyone?
While I do think that we should take measures to inform the public better to prevent such "fake information" to spread, I would not go as far to have it not protected under free speech. After all, someone would have to decide what is considered a conspiracy theory/view, and almost certainly this would involve some political regulatory body. I have no trust that a fair, reasonable and scientific assessment is guaranteed under those conditions. After all, a very popular current federal councilor has in the past, i) supported the distribution of anti-vaxxer talking points to the general public, ii) supported unscientific medical treatment and the unscientific assessment of such treatment iii) spread lies and fear to fight GMOs. If such people would be in charge of executing the assessment, unreasonable decisions would be inevitable.
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Old 18.02.2020, 07:16
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

Who is to decide what what the conspiracy theory is though?! This is why freedom of speech is so important! Anti-Vaxxers get given a hard time yet in Europe at least, homeopathy by and large gets given a free ride. Whilst I believe in Climate Change, in that global temperatures have risen by 1 degree in relation to pre-industrial levels and this is down to man made activity, I certainly don’t believe in the “Climate emergency” that is peddled by many parts of the media and the likes of Greta Thunberg. I believe this is a conspiracy theory. To hear both sides of the story allow us to form opinions of our own.
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Old 18.02.2020, 07:37
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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It's a sad reality. Living in the Information Age seems to have turned into the Ignorance Age. And not the blissful type.

I'm in a slight state of panic and confusion, as the stupidity of conspiracy theorists has now spread to some of my family members.

Anti-vaxxers and climate "skeptics" are given a voice in mainstream media, as they're considered the "opposing side".

With regards to the US, I'm pretty certain Trump has had a massive contribution to the flourishing of this phenomenon. His entire speeches revolve around conspiracy theories. And facts are labelled as "fake news".

Given how most social media platform refuse to ban the nutjobs who try to instigate collective paranoia, is it reasonable to say that conspiracy views SHOULD NOT be protected by free speech?

The Supreme Court already ruled that yelling FIRE in a public space where no such danger is apparent, wasn't protected by the 1st amendment.

What about those who foster and spread fear about vaccines causing autism or death, those who claim climate-change is a hoax and other nasty stuff that's not worth repeating? Admittedly, conspiracy mongering produces much more severe consequences than a lunatic yelling out "fire" in a cinema.

Thoughts everyone?
So what do you suggest. Lock everybody up because they have views opposing yours.Whatever happened to an open society?

What does it mean when someone says you live in a glass house?
1. A position or situation involving intense public scrutiny. 2. A phrase to remind someone that they're being hypocritical. Comes from the idiom and proverb "Those who live in a glass house should not throw stones at others" (meaning don't criticise others if you have similar weaknesses yourself). Deuteronomy 5

Take care of your own shit first. The other will take care of itself!
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Old 18.02.2020, 07:42
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Thoughts everyone?
Absurd.
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Old 18.02.2020, 08:12
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Thoughts everyone?
(Man-made) climate-change is a hoax.

Tom
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Old 18.02.2020, 08:17
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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(Man-made) climate-change is a hoax.

Tom
Yes. The hoax is only there to get more money out of the pockets of everyone. They have run out of sources and the hoax is a good reson to steal more money ( eg CO2 Tax ) They dont want less pollution. They want more tax. Less pollution is a BAD business model!
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Old 18.02.2020, 08:34
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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I'm in a slight state of panic and confusion, as the stupidity of conspiracy theorists has now spread to some of my family members.
Same here, but I don't stand for it and call them out every single time. We have one who started banging on to me about vape trails and my answer was "You don't believe that crap, do you?" and it shut her down. At the time, my partner and I worked at Heathrow and lived 3.5 miles from airport.

Also had that person's spouse drop the Holocaust denial bomb during a family dinner. I did the deep breath and count to 10. He wasn't dropping the matter despite insistance from others at the table, so I went medieval on him and excused myself from the table. I later apologised to his mum in private, and she said she was glad someone had stood up to him because it broke her heart to hear how "stupid" her son had become.
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Anti-vaxxers and climate "skeptics" are given a voice in mainstream media, as they're considered the "opposing side".
With that particular issue, I've seen quite a few doctors decry how the matter isn't debated proportionally. If one in 100 doctors is anti-vaxx, to be debated in a manner that is visually correct, there should be 99 doctors debating the one who is an anti-vaxxer, not one representative from each side. It's not really feasible, but the optics would go some way to getting the message across.

What probably has a bigger impact is that two UK soap operas have very recently had anti-vaxx and holistic/alternative therapy storylines, two of which had tragic consequences. Yes, it's a fictional representation, but if it gets the message across...
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Old 18.02.2020, 08:48
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Same here, but I don't stand for it and call them out every single time. We have one who started banging on to me about vape trails and my answer was "You don't believe that crap, do you?" and it shut her down. At the time, my partner and I worked at Heathrow and lived 3.5 miles from airport.

Also had that person's spouse drop the Holocaust denial bomb during a family dinner. I did the deep breath and count to 10. He wasn't dropping the matter despite insistance from others at the table, so I went medieval on him and excused myself from the table. I later apologised to his mum in private, and she said she was glad someone had stood up to him because it broke her heart to hear how "stupid" her son had become.
With that particular issue, I've seen quite a few doctors decry how the matter isn't debated proportionally. If one in 100 doctors is anti-vaxx, to be debated in a manner that is visually correct, there should be 99 doctors debating the one who is an anti-vaxxer, not one representative from each side. It's not really feasible, but the optics would go some way to getting the message across.

What probably has a bigger impact is that two UK soap operas have very recently had anti-vaxx and holistic/alternative therapy storylines, two of which had tragic consequences. Yes, it's a fictional representation, but if it gets the message across...
Well I must admit I hate the vape trails. Over Zürich there are sometimes so many that the sun hardly gets through. And I am not exaggerating!
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Old 18.02.2020, 09:13
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Well I must admit I hate the vape trails. Over Zürich there are sometimes so many that the sun hardly gets through. And I am not exaggerating!
Clearly they should ban vaping!

Tom
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Old 18.02.2020, 09:19
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Clearly they should ban vaping!

Tom
Stop the vaping

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Old 18.02.2020, 10:22
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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....
Thoughts everyone?
<< ..... views SHOULD NOT be protected by free speech?>>

That statement/idea is so wrong and it's scary, this thought is around.
But glad free speech exists, so I know the notion is out there. Or at least is being propagandized, in case you're a Chinese or Russian governmental bot or a Trumpian one.

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.....What probably has a bigger impact is that two UK soap operas have very recently had anti-vaxx and holistic/alternative therapy storylines, two of which had tragic consequences. Yes, it's a fictional representation, but if it gets the message across...
This is an other very disturbing thing I noticed (I don't follow soap operas, so it took me a while), the manipulation of the masses via soap operas, the stories people get so much into that they are sure, the actors are the figures and even ask them about story-events as if it hat happened in their real life, when they hunt them down for autographs. Completely unable to devide story from reality.
First it was product-placement, now it is opinion-forming. Total horror. And to think that those who notice even support it is even bigger horror!

About product placement there was protest and for a while they explicitly mentioned in the trailers "we have no product placement" - either this alertness/declaration is gone again or I simply don't watch enough tv anymore to notice it. I do still notice product placement though.

To think a team of soap-writers steer public opinion makes me shudder.
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Old 18.02.2020, 10:15
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

Don't be surprised if the antivaxxers also go for "alternative" cancer treatment. But......it's called freedom.

There are books, experiments and religions that say drinking is bad. With all the accumulated knowledge on drinking I wouldn't be surprised if someone called me stupid and ignorant for my habit. So, you find climate skeptics idiotic, I find smokers idiotic and teetotalers may call me an idiot

Since we live in a free society the thing ends in everyone calling each other an idiot. But, what if someone thinks I need to be freed from my meat eating addiction and liberating me it's worth reducing my freedom and restricting my access to meat? Some prison or re-education?

There's always the danger of authoritarianism. There's no way to eliminate bad things, we can only minimize them. An authoritarian out of control is much worse than antivaxxers. In this sense, freedom is a tool to keep authoritarians at bay, even if there's a risk for idiots to arise

PS. all the things done to gays in the name of "correcting" them
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Old 18.02.2020, 11:11
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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I'm in a slight state of panic and confusion, as the stupidity of conspiracy theorists has now spread to some of my family members.
I understand your sentiment but think they think the same about you. More so if your exercised your theory of limiting their right to free speech.
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Old 18.02.2020, 11:33
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Don't be surprised if the antivaxxers also go for "alternative" cancer treatment.
Know one of those too. She chose 'the power of prayer' for about the first 2yrs after her diagnosis, until the pain became too much. Finally, she switched to chemo for a few months. Her widower insists it was the chemo that killed her.
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Old 18.02.2020, 11:41
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Re: Conspiracy beliefs on the rise...

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Know one of those too. She chose 'the power of prayer' for about the first 2yrs after her diagnosis, until the pain became too much. Finally, she switched to chemo for a few months. Her widower insists it was the chemo that killed her.
As long as you use somebody's pain to prove your point on a public forum. Did you also "call the widower on it"?
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