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  #101  
Old 10.04.2020, 11:19
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Re: SVP trying to end the lock down after the 19th of April.

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You’ve not read what’s been written either, Switzerland's health system in most of the country currently isn’t overloaded. Nor is it so in Sweden that has remained largely open during this crisis.
I wouldn't panic about Switzerland, tbh, it seems that people are very busy planning loosening the measures. It is on the news every night. The date must be tough to predict but 1) keep your personal responsibility high, 2) prepare yourself mentally for come back to real life which has in the meantime changed. In the most expensive place in Europe, I cannot see the complete shutdown going for too much longer, 3-4 wks? Especially if the hospitals are within high standards of fast and available treatment and not overcrowded. 2 months of shutdown and not 3 (China, etc..) makes quite a big difference to Swiss economy. Let's cross fingers and keep personally responsible, no mingling, etc. They predicted the Easter wknd to be a real test. We can do it. If we can, then the lockdown loosens up faster.
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  #102  
Old 10.04.2020, 20:44
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Re: SVP trying to end the lock down after the 19th of April.

This is outstanding. Hope the embedded video works. Maitlis has hit the nail on the head.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...=1586544182045


I'm not at all interested in a sidelined debate about whether the BBC dipped out of impartiality or not.
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  #103  
Old 10.04.2020, 21:32
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Re: SVP trying to end the lock down after the 19th of April.

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This is outstanding. Hope the embedded video works. Maitlis has hit the nail on the head.

Totally. Disadvantaged people are at a much higher risk and are going to have poorer outcomes. It’s not a leveler.

it’s the same old fighting spirit/positive attitude bullshit we hear about disease all the time. Sure a fighting spirit may help you seek care and follow instructions but it doesn’t matter at all if you don’t have access to care, and if there are insufficient resources to care for you.

I was watching Chris Cuomo on CNN and he’s been broadcasting while recovering from COVID-19. I had to turn it off when he started to go own about attitude and spirit. No. Just. No. If you have all the material advantages, then sure, maybe attitude helps. Ugh

It’s called “toxic positivity”
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  #104  
Old 10.04.2020, 21:46
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Re: SVP trying to end the lock down after the 19th of April.

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Totally. Disadvantaged people are at a much higher risk and are going to have poorer outcomes. It’s not a leveler.

it’s the same old fighting spirit/positive attitude bullshit we hear about disease all the time. Sure a fighting spirit may help you seek care and follow instructions but it doesn’t matter at all if you don’t have access to care, and if there are insufficient resources to care for you.

I was watching Chris Cuomo on CNN and he’s been broadcasting while recovering from COVID-19. I had to turn it off when he started to go own about attitude and spirit. No. Just. No. If you have all the material advantages, then sure, maybe attitude helps. Ugh

It’s called “toxic positivity”
Useful term.

Yep it's a lot easier to isolate in some situations over others.
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  #105  
Old 10.04.2020, 22:10
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Re: SVP trying to end the lock down after the 19th of April.

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It’s called “toxic positivity”
Sounds a lot better than toxic negativity.
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  #106  
Old 10.04.2020, 22:57
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Re: SVP trying to end the lock down after the 19th of April.

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Sounds a lot better than toxic negativity.
I reckon that exists as well.
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  #107  
Old 11.04.2020, 08:22
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Re: SVP trying to end the lock down after the 19th of April.

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This is outstanding. Hope the embedded video works. Maitlis has hit the nail on the head.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...=1586544182045


I'm not at all interested in a sidelined debate about whether the BBC dipped out of impartiality or not.
What's this got to do with ending the lock down? I think you got the wrong discussion!
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  #108  
Old 11.04.2020, 08:29
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Re: SVP trying to end the lock down after the 19th of April.

The Daily Telegraph (UK version, not racist propaganda Australian version ) reported yesterday that one estimate of avoidable deaths in the UK due to an extended lockdown puts the figure at 150,000! Far more than due to the Coronavirus itself!

As I've already said, a smaller economy means a poorer society and less money for healthcare and public services. Hospitals closed for anything other than emergencies mean that children aren't being vaccinated and smaller problems can become bigger problems (e.g. people unable to get that angry mole, or lump checked out).

This is before the other effects of stress of businesses going bust, people losing jobs, employees on reduced wages due to furlough, depression of being stuck at home (poorer people most likely to suffer here as their houses and flats will be smaller), domestic violence and suicides.

The curve is flattening, time to reopen the country!
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  #109  
Old 11.04.2020, 08:30
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Re: SVP trying to end the lock down after the 19th of April.

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I wouldn't panic about Switzerland, tbh, it seems that people are very busy planning loosening the measures. It is on the news every night. The date must be tough to predict but 1) keep your personal responsibility high, 2) prepare yourself mentally for come back to real life which has in the meantime changed. In the most expensive place in Europe, I cannot see the complete shutdown going for too much longer, 3-4 wks? Especially if the hospitals are within high standards of fast and available treatment and not overcrowded. 2 months of shutdown and not 3 (China, etc..) makes quite a big difference to Swiss economy. Let's cross fingers and keep personally responsible, no mingling, etc. They predicted the Easter wknd to be a real test. We can do it. If we can, then the lockdown loosens up faster.
Like kiddies trying to please the stern parents. If they don't they get the strap!!
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  #110  
Old 11.04.2020, 09:49
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Re: SVP trying to end the lock down after the 19th of April.

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This is outstanding. Hope the embedded video works. Maitlis has hit the nail on the head.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...=1586544182045


I'm not at all interested in a sidelined debate about whether the BBC dipped out of impartiality or not.
In my view she's partially correct. The most affected boroughs in the UK are Kensington and Chelsea and Westminster. There are some poorer people in these boroughs, but most are stonkingly rich. So as far as health is concerned, I think we really are in it all together. There is obviously an urban / rural split but that doesn't go down class lines.

However, there can't be any serious doubt that the misery of unemployment, poverty and social isolation will be felt mostly by those in low paid jobs.

Thats why some of the largely better off people on here want to open up. Not out of selfishness, but we would rather take the hit as the least worst option (as horrible as that is) then put people through the misery and health impacts caused by poverty. There needs to be a collective degree of honesty about the lack of a better option. The lockup forever people are in total denial about their complete lack of a plan and the mess it'd leave the world in.
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  #111  
Old 11.04.2020, 10:13
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Re: SVP trying to end the lock down after the 19th of April.

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I'm not at all interested in a sidelined debate about whether the BBC dipped out of impartiality or not.
I think other members would already have worked that out
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  #112  
Old 11.04.2020, 10:17
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Re: SVP trying to end the lock down after the 19th of April.

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I think other members would already have worked that out
Like a few years back, you mean?
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  #113  
Old 11.04.2020, 10:18
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Re: SVP trying to end the lock down after the 19th of April.

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Thats why some of the largely better off people on here want to open up. Not out of selfishness, but we would rather take the hit as the least worst option (as horrible as that is) then put people through the misery and health impacts caused by poverty. There needs to be a collective degree of honesty about the lack of a better option. The lockup forever people are in total denial about their complete lack of a plan and the mess it'd leave the world in.
As far as I gathered, no-one is in the lockup forever group, rather in the do it gradually and take as few risks as possible group, and be ready to go back to where you started if things go really bad, reassess and come up with better strategies group.

Those who advocate "let's just start everything again" dismiss all the reasoning for which a lockdown has been imposed in the first place. Precaution, trial and error. We criticised govs for the lack of measures taken as soon as possible i.e. earlier than they actually did, we'll be back to square 0 in no time if things are done the way some people here see fit. Sorry for the typos, I can do better in normal circumstances.
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  #114  
Old 11.04.2020, 10:32
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Re: SVP trying to end the lock down after the 19th of April.

Spain to ease coronavirus lockdown as country’s rates of infections, deaths slow
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  #115  
Old 11.04.2020, 10:38
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Re: SVP trying to end the lock down after the 19th of April.

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Like kiddies trying to please the stern parents. If they don't they get the strap!!
Why be so dramatic again. Here you don't have to threaten the population with overblown death estimates in order to make them comply, we should be grategul for that. It is tough to balance it between not making the population panic and hurt from anxiety and uncertainty and keep them resonable and folowing the measures. The measures are done to curb the virus shedding from mainly asymptomatic positive people, keep the vectors home, with the lowest possible number of outside contacts.

So, you are making fun of the compliance here but I am impressed. It compensated for the fact that the measures could have been implemented 2wks earlier, esp. the border closing and protective gear and gels could have been made widely available.
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  #116  
Old 11.04.2020, 10:39
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Re: SVP trying to end the lock down after the 19th of April.

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Thats why some of the largely better off people on here want to open up. Not out of selfishness, but we would rather take the hit as the least worst option.....
This is one the best, out of reality, version of "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche"* I have heard from someone in real lie. I will translate what you are saying: let's the common people start working, because I don't want to deal with problems that will arrive later. There will be sacrifices, but I am ready to take them as I firmly believe personally I am safe. Dear jorido, if you care so much about other people, I am sure you are and you will be able to help them, directly or with sharing your wealth.



*"Let them eat cake" is the traditional translation of the French phrase "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche", supposedly spoken in the 17th or 18th century by "Marie Antoinette" upon learning that the peasants had no bread.
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  #117  
Old 11.04.2020, 10:45
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Re: SVP trying to end the lock down after the 19th of April.

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This is one the best, out of reality, version of "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche"* I have heard from someone in real lie. I will translate what you are saying: let's the common people start working, because I don't want to deal with problems that will arrive later. There will be sacrifices, but I am ready to take them as I firmly believe personally I am safe. Dear jorido, if you care so much about other people, I am sure you are and you will be able to help them, directly or with sharing your wealth.



*"Let them eat cake" is the traditional translation of the French phrase "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche", supposedly spoken in the 17th or 18th century by "Marie Antoinette" upon learning that the peasants had no bread.
This.

I am touched by the altruistic thoughts here.

I'm concerned that the farmers will refuse to work like 10 times more these days and the postmen and cashiers will take an indefinite leave, moi.
We need other people to stay healthy. Whether we really care about them or not. (hopefully people do care for real and are not only posturing and virtue signalling, so glad I can use these "concepts")
()

Which brings us back to: how do we keep essential people healthy?
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  #118  
Old 11.04.2020, 10:49
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Re: SVP trying to end the lock down after the 19th of April.

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Spain to ease coronavirus lockdown as country’s rates of infections, deaths slow
"The government is preparing new scenarios of de-escalation,"

Not quite the same as what the headline says is it?
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  #119  
Old 11.04.2020, 10:55
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Re: SVP trying to end the lock down after the 19th of April.

If measures potentially loosens, I mean when they do, why think it will be just the poor people exposing themselves more? And now, why think it is just rich who are the most protected? Bosses of companies are still out and working in their offices if they need to, I know businesses where bosses are outside but they protect their staff by giving them homeoffice..Doctors and directors are out there, politicians still meet, they risk eventhough it is controled, they are still way more exposed then people who stay at home. Here in Switzerland where the richest people ride a bike to work and shop in Migros, is it wrong to think the social divide might actually get closer? There is a lot of philantropy now going around, too.
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  #120  
Old 11.04.2020, 10:57
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Re: SVP trying to end the lock down after the 19th of April.

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"The government is preparing new scenarios of de-escalation,"

Not quite the same as what the headline says is it?
If you read 1 more line below the quoted text you would read this:

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Even though several officials have said the formal lockdown will probably continue into May, some restrictions are to be lifted on Monday to breathe life into a paralysed economy.

From then, workers in some sectors such as construction will be allowed out again and some factories will reopen.
Which corresponds exactly what the title say...
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