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  #61  
Old 15.06.2020, 10:59
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Re: SBB demands end to working from home due to COVID-19

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If they *demand* WFH from their employees, the companies should bear part of those rent/utility/equipment costs - at least according to those recent writings in CH, no?
In theory they should help only if there's an additional cost to you. Rent, utilities, you pay anyway and are not driven by working from home. Re equipment costs, my employer actually allows to pick stuff from the office to equip your home office (with a limit if course), so this is already happening.
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Old 15.06.2020, 11:02
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Re: SBB demands end to working from home due to COVID-19

My employer does not pay anything (contractually) but then I save a lot not having to drive 70k one way every day. So for me this is a good deal to work from home.
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  #63  
Old 15.06.2020, 11:29
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Re: SBB demands end to working from home due to COVID-19

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In theory they should help only if there's an additional cost to you. Rent, utilities, you pay anyway and are not driven by working from home.
They are. Water, power, use of pc, phones, bandwith, you name it. Even rent, one needs a certain environment for meetings from home, not construction work in a neighboring apartment, that disqualifies you from meetings, for example, or a drunk person yelling. Or you yelling in the meetings and disturbing the neighbor's baby. Ton of other restrictions that will play a role in how indispensible one becomes.

It was a fight to show to the employers that outsourcing, offshoring from another country and other cost cutting might not have been the best choice, people were slowly getting back to their previous positions and chances for decent jobs.

Confinement and wfh might have thrown a wrench in this delicate balance, imho. Employees are footing this.

I know CFF maybe pushes for office work and people do not like it. Glad the OP could have arranged exceptions for herself. But overall, real office work is more fair, imho.
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  #64  
Old 15.06.2020, 11:29
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Re: SBB demands end to working from home due to COVID-19

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In theory they should help only if there's an additional cost to you. Rent, utilities, you pay anyway and are not driven by working from home. Re equipment costs, my employer actually allows to pick stuff from the office to equip your home office (with a limit if course), so this is already happening.

I took an officer chair and a computer screen from the office. The laptop and docking station for several monitors are mobile by design. The gas tank in the car lasted 5 weeks instead of one during April, now only 2-3 weeks
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  #65  
Old 15.06.2020, 12:25
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Re: SBB demands end to working from home due to COVID-19

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If they *demand* WFH from their employees, the companies should bear part of those rent/utility/equipment costs - at least according to those recent writings in CH, no?
If WFH is required by the employer, then to comply with recent rulings some costs could fall to the company. In the case recently in the press, it amounted to CHF 150 per month. Not much gain to the employee, but across the board a significant cost to the employer.

However, the devil is in the details. It remains to be seen whether a government mandated office closure falls into that case. And certainly WFH at the employee's request does not.

IME it might be naive to expect to see companies pick up those costs without also implementing savings measures to cover. If stats show that work can be done more productively with WFH, in cost sensitive fields - like IT - one might expect to see layoffs as a result. "You can do more at home? Fine, we need fewer people."

But then, lay off rounds were likely already planned. Now it can all get swept under the COVID rug.

Double edged sword.
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  #66  
Old 15.06.2020, 12:53
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Re: SBB demands end to working from home due to COVID-19

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But then, lay off rounds were likely already planned. Now it can all get swept under the COVID rug.

Double edged sword.
Exactly. For around 5 years, my company has been slowly moving ALL operations to India. This crisis will just expedite their existing plans and I am fully aware my head is on the chopping block. This is happening all across Switzerland currently simply because costs for hiring employees here are too high. Big corporations keep their "home office" here for tax purposes and hire whoever they can in cheaper countries. My company before my current job, moved all operations to the UK & East Europe and I was laid off at that time. It is frightening for many of us since Switzerland is the country we now call home. I'm 39 and worry for the future.

I believe WFH 100% isn't functional. My company has just rolled out a new program to where we can work from home up to 60% of the week (once the crisis is over). They have offered a certain amount of money per person for IT equipment and will pay part of our home internet costs. This is an excellent option, at least until my job is moved to India.
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  #67  
Old 15.06.2020, 13:45
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Re: SBB demands end to working from home due to COVID-19

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...Rent, utilities, you pay anyway and are not driven by working from home...
I think it depends. If both spouses previously worked outside the home, now with WFH there are computers, monitors, printers, lights, etc. on all day long. More use of the stove because of eating more at home. In the early months of this, more heat was used than if the house was empty all day. However, at least some of those expenses are offset by not commuting by car or public transport.

Not everyone has a spare room that can serve as an office. Few have two spare rooms so that both spouses can have a home office. In the short term, this means one person uses the living/dining area or maybe a corner of the bedroom as an office. In the long term, this isn't practical or reasonable to expect of an employee unless it was agreed in advance.

If WFH was the agreement at the start, fine. If it's a change to the contract and expectations for the long haul then I think the employer should help with some costs.
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  #68  
Old 20.06.2020, 12:36
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Re: SBB demands end to working from home due to COVID-19

Looks like SBB got what they wanted. New measures announced yesterday say even those in risk groups no longer need to work from home. Thanks SBB!
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  #69  
Old 20.06.2020, 13:23
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Re: SBB demands end to working from home due to COVID-19

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Looks like SBB got what they wanted. New measures announced yesterday say even those in risk groups no longer need to work from home. Thanks SBB!
What? You think the CFF was the only business asking for this? If you are at risk, and your boss wants you in the office, then you wear a mask.

Many jobs cannot be done from home.
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Old 20.06.2020, 14:53
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Re: SBB demands end to working from home due to COVID-19

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Many jobs cannot be done from home.
And many jobs can be done from home. The guidance was for those who can work from home, should.
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  #71  
Old 22.06.2020, 01:01
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Re: SBB demands end to working from home due to COVID-19

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What? You think the CFF was the only business asking for this? If you are at risk, and your boss wants you in the office, then you wear a mask.
That makes no sense. The mask doesn't really protect the wearer, it's meant to protect others from the wearer in case they're infected but unaware.

Given all the chronic fatigue and lung disease we're going to see as a result of this disease, I'd just quit my job if forced to go in. If my employer doesn't care about me, then I'm not going to put my future health at risk.
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  #72  
Old 22.06.2020, 07:05
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Re: SBB demands end to working from home due to COVID-19

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That makes no sense. The mask doesn't really protect the wearer, it's meant to protect others from the wearer in case they're infected but unaware.
How long does it take to get rid of this myth. Almost any type of mask reduces your exposure to droplets and will thus reduce viral exposure. A micro fibre scarve can be disinfected in the microwave - if it stlll moist from your breath so much the better.
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  #73  
Old 22.06.2020, 08:14
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Re: SBB demands end to working from home due to COVID-19

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How long does it take to get rid of this myth.
It's an official guideline, not a myth:
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Surgical masks, also known as procedural or OP masks, are available as Type II or Type IIR and other designations. They’re primarily designed to protect those around the person wearing them rather than the person themselves.
https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/en/home...enemasken.html
Note my emphasis on "primarily designed". Of course they can do something else as well.

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Almost any type of mask reduces your exposure to droplets and will thus reduce viral exposure.
I totally agree, the point is: how much? With FFP2 the wearer has a not small, measurable level of protection, with "any type of mask" the wearer has... how much? Probably not zero, but low enough to be challenged by other factors. That's why hospital staff don't use them in infection wards and it's not recommended for the public to rely completely on them. "Better than nothing" does not necessarily mean "good enough".

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A micro fibre scarve can be disinfected in the microwave - if it stlll moist from your breath so much the better.
The efficiency of microwaves for disinfection is documented but there seems to be a certain variability in the results depending on devices, materials and so on, e.g. see https://www.cdc.gov/infectioncontrol...r-methods.html
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Old 22.06.2020, 08:28
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Re: SBB demands end to working from home due to COVID-19

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If you are at risk, and your boss wants you in the office, then you wear a mask.
Then everybody should wear a mask. This way droplets are confined within the mask of the unaware infected person(s) and the air and the surfaces remain reasonably clean. That's what is currently done in hospitals, you can't enter without a mask.
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  #75  
Old 22.06.2020, 08:56
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Re: SBB demands end to working from home due to COVID-19

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Then everybody should wear a mask. This way droplets are confined within the mask of the unaware infected person(s) and the air and the surfaces remain reasonably clean. That's what is currently done in hospitals, you can't enter without a mask.
Exactly, but SBB has made it public that they do not want to enforce it. In all honesty, it would be almost impossible for them to. I am just going to sit back and wait until the second wave and hope my employer won't fire me until then. For now, I'm at least safe until August. Everyone stay safe and wishing you good health.
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  #76  
Old 22.06.2020, 08:59
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Re: SBB demands end to working from home due to COVID-19

I certainly would support masks being worn whenever in public, particularly on public transportation.
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Old 22.06.2020, 09:37
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Re: SBB demands end to working from home due to COVID-19

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It's an official guideline, not a myth:
[/url]


A simple mask offers good protection, a scarve is likely to be more comfortable and fit closer to the face than a surgical mask.

Microwaving is an excellent way of disinfecting water-borne covid. The cloth should be damp as water absorbs the microwaves better than the virus particles -it is the heat that then kills the virus. the cloth should be too hot to handle/or you see steam rising for an effective treatment. If the cloth is too wet it just takes longer to heat up. It pays to put a cloth/scarve through the washing machine now and again as well as a daily zap


It is all about lowering the viral load, not offering surgical levels of sterility

Last edited by KiwiSteve; 22.06.2020 at 09:40. Reason: Non-sensical start
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  #78  
Old 22.06.2020, 09:43
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Re: SBB demands end to working from home due to COVID-19

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Exactly, but SBB has made it public that they do not want to enforce it. In all honesty, it would be almost impossible for them to. I am just going to sit back and wait until the second wave and hope my employer won't fire me until then. For now, I'm at least safe until August. Everyone stay safe and wishing you good health.

May I ask what area you work in? Is German language necessary for your job? Outsourcing to India is not as easy as many companies seem to think.
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  #79  
Old 22.06.2020, 10:21
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Re: SBB demands end to working from home due to COVID-19

I'm amazed to hear the SBB have not upped the cleaning of carriages. Pre-C19 I took a tram in Berne and a lady came on, in uniform and armed with cleaning gear to wipe down and disinfect the grab rails and handles, while the tram was moving. Surely SBB could do something like this!

In any case, even pre-C19 (and I've not used public transport since the virus started) I try to avoid touching any surfaces and carry with me now a small bottle of disinfectant gel.
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Old 22.06.2020, 10:55
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Re: SBB demands end to working from home due to COVID-19

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May I ask what area you work in? Is German language necessary for your job? Outsourcing to India is not as easy as many companies seem to think.
I work in Big Pharma, German language is not necessary, since it is an international company. They have already been outsourcing to India for over 5 years now. Despite the expected hiccups, they still continue to do so and have stopped all local hire aside from senior executive positions. (They even recently tried to hire one of those in India & it was widely disputed and management eventually gave in.)
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