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  #221  
Old 28.09.2020, 10:38
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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The percentage of people who voted yes was far above , maybe double , the share of votes they can realistically get in an election.

So to me that does sound like some sort of a consensus that voters of other parties agree with .

It shows the SVP of old is back in business .

In my opinion this is all the SVP needs right now . All the rhetoric directed against them could equally be directed at the discontents in other parties . Politics is about habit building and if people build a habit of voting with the SVP even if they don’t vote for the SVP, this is extra leverage .
SVP vote share in the last 2019 Federal Council election was 25%.
This vote had 38% support so where do you get "maybe double the share of votes they can realistically get in an election." when it is actually around than a half more.
Or are you forecasting an SVP collapse in the next election?
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  #222  
Old 28.09.2020, 10:43
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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...So to me that does sound like some sort of a consensus that voters of other parties agree with...
I'd have thought the 62% no is rather more indicative of a consensus given it's well over 3 times the share any individual party got.

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In my opinion this is all the SVP needs right now . All the rhetoric directed against them could equally be directed at the discontents in other parties . Politics is about habit building and if people build a habit of voting with the SVP even if they don’t vote for the SVP, this is extra leverage .
Straw grasping much? The SVP rightly are seeing this as a nice kick in their knackers.
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  #223  
Old 28.09.2020, 11:09
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

Results by canton. https://www.bk.admin.ch/ch/d/pore/va...27/can631.html

Curious to the vote in AG was 57.57% for Nein since the amount of visual pollution....er, adds on the streets was overwhelming.

The Röstigraben is broken. The most significant Nein was on Basel City: 74.65%.

What's going on in TI? If they don't like EU immigration, they could simply stop hiring them and start paying Swiss salaries to French or German speaking Swiss
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  #224  
Old 28.09.2020, 11:29
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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What's going on in TI? If they don't like EU immigration, they could simply stop hiring them and start paying Swiss salaries to French or German speaking Swiss
I suspect it was a vote against frontaliers. And the people voting no were not those hiring EU nationals.
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  #225  
Old 28.09.2020, 11:45
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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Results by canton. https://www.bk.admin.ch/ch/d/pore/va...27/can631.html

Curious to the vote in AG was 57.57% for Nein since the amount of visual pollution....er, adds on the streets was overwhelming.

The Röstigraben is broken. The most significant Nein was on Basel City: 74.65%.

What's going on in TI? If they don't like EU immigration, they could simply stop hiring them and start paying Swiss salaries to French or German speaking Swiss
As usual, the highest yes votes (excluding TI) were mostly in the central Cantons that see few immigrants.
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  #226  
Old 28.09.2020, 11:53
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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I'm neither glad nor disappointed because of the vote results, however, I was a bit worried: how did st2lemans and a few others here take it?
Most people in Ticino are pissed off.

Tom
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  #227  
Old 28.09.2020, 11:55
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

I also live in a frontalier region - and yes the NO was quite massive.
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  #228  
Old 28.09.2020, 11:59
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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What's going on in TI? If they don't like EU immigration, they could simply stop hiring them and start paying Swiss salaries to French or German speaking Swiss
Or Swiss Italian speakers, even. French and German Swiss are still perceived as foreigners, so no more welcome there than the rest of the EU.

Seriously though, business in general will continue to profit from paying lower salaries to the frontaliers and EU immigrants, the majority of Ticinese peasants will continue to fail to see the advantages this brings to their economy, but rail against the foreigners allegedly taking their jobs, and middle-class multi-property-owning expats will continue to believe that it's fine to be fiercely xenophobic now that they're 'integrated'.
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  #229  
Old 28.09.2020, 12:00
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

But Geneva and Vaud we solidly No.
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  #230  
Old 28.09.2020, 12:05
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Most people in Ticino are pissed off.
Maybe they should move somewhere better?

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I also live in a frontalier region - and yes the NO was quite massive.
Indeed. Interesting also that it's not just French-speaking areas, but generally, Ticino apart, those with the highest proportion of cross-border working (and shopping) that came out strongest against it. Basel Stadt, with a 75/25 split, was actually the highest No vote in the country, and has by far the highest proportion of Grenzgangers and foreigners working in high-education positions.

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As usual, the highest yes votes (excluding TI) were mostly in the central Cantons that see few immigrants.
It's not for nothing that the SVP is also known as the Swiss Valleys Party.
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  #231  
Old 28.09.2020, 12:17
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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As usual, the highest yes votes (excluding TI) were mostly in the central Cantons that see few immigrants.

My impression is that the number of immigrants is irrelevant.The issue comes from the number of their sons and daughters leaving for the city. The population between 15-60 years old is missing, and replaced by immigrants.

Last edited by Axa; 28.09.2020 at 13:07.
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  #232  
Old 28.09.2020, 13:33
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

here most of them are married to immigrants, and have immigrant grandchildren- be they the Italians who arrived post 1st and 2nd W wars- or the Spanish and Portuguese, Albanians, etc - from the 70s and 80s, and many to French ex frontaliers too- both sides. It is 'funny' how the perception of immigrants changes once families are mixed and grandchildren come on the scene.

Last edited by JackieH; 28.09.2020 at 14:03.
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  #233  
Old 28.09.2020, 13:53
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

I'm more annoyed about the fighter plane purchases passing
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  #234  
Old 28.09.2020, 14:02
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

For sure, and by the tiniest minority. And a blank cheque too- as planes not chosen yet- and operational and maintenance costs not known either
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  #235  
Old 28.09.2020, 14:09
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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For sure, and by the tiniest minority. And a blank cheque too- as planes not chosen yet- and operational and maintenance costs not known either
More then enough money for 200 Korean FA-50. Once a gain Switzerland would have enough jets to outfit all of its alpine airfields.
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  #236  
Old 28.09.2020, 14:29
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

Can't post the Vaudois' MP Brélat's speech in Government- but he was spot on. What are those planes for? To protect us from whom? Russia? China? It takes 8 minutes to cross the country in a fighter plane btw. If enemy planes arrive near our shores- that would mean that NATO has been defeated already- so what is Switzerland going to to, isolated in the middle- with its silly planes? Doh
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  #237  
Old 28.09.2020, 14:48
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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The percentage of people who voted yes was far above , maybe double , the share of votes they can realistically get in an election.

So to me that does sound like some sort of a consensus that voters of other parties agree with .

It shows the SVP of old is back in business .

In my opinion this is all the SVP needs right now . All the rhetoric directed against them could equally be directed at the discontents in other parties . Politics is about habit building and if people build a habit of voting with the SVP even if they don’t vote for the SVP, this is extra leverage .
Uh... it shows that in a two-party system where SVP were to be one of the parties, the SVP would lose. No more, no less. Thinking that a referendum with a yes/no answer and no third alternative is in any way indicative of multi-party election potential is.. misguided. Even the stir fry crazy Selbstbestimmungsinitiative got a way higher percentage of Yes-votes in 2018 than there were SVP votes in the 2019 election.
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Old 28.09.2020, 15:03
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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Can't post the Vaudois' MP Brélat's speech in Government- but he was spot on. What are those planes for? To protect us from whom? Russia? China? It takes 8 minutes to cross the country in a fighter plane btw. If enemy planes arrive near our shores- that would mean that NATO has been defeated already- so what is Switzerland going to to, isolated in the middle- with its silly planes?
All of the major players have capabilities to launch a guided missiles attack (and even more easily ballistic missiles) to knock out airports, hangars, and other infrastructure from the Mediterranean Sea, the Atlantic Ocean, the Baltic Sea, or even from the Black Sea. One unnamed actor might launch its missiles conveniently from Ramstein Airbase.
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  #239  
Old 28.09.2020, 15:31
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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All of the major players have capabilities to launch a guided missiles attack (and even more easily ballistic missiles) to knock out airports, hangars, and other infrastructure from the Mediterranean Sea, the Atlantic Ocean, the Baltic Sea, or even from the Black Sea. One unnamed actor might launch its missiles conveniently from Ramstein Airbase.

Well, and ???
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  #240  
Old 28.09.2020, 15:48
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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Well, and ???
I think he is agreeing with you Unless he is making some other point that has flown over my head.

A missile system would be more useful than fighter jets? What about attack helicopters in case of civil war or low level guerilla warfare?
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