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  #161  
Old 10.09.2020, 10:22
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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Still, if you're not productive enough you'll be fired and replaced by another imported employee. And good luck finding a new job if you haven't learned the local language by then.
I don't really understand the push on learning national languages from populists politicians and other people. When I arrived I knew nothing. Now I'm fluent in French, going to school for DE, and drinking with Italians to learn IT. Where's the economic benefit for Swiss workers if I'm able to displace 99% of them by taking 10K less income per year?.

If I stayed ignorant I'd be less competitive, and everyone could ask for higher salaries. If they want to stay ahead, they should push the Swiss to learn another national language the way they push foreigners to learn 1 national language. Careful with what you wish for

Last edited by Axa; 10.09.2020 at 10:35.
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  #162  
Old 10.09.2020, 10:32
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

I learnt Italian from TV, and my German/SG went from grap to good when I moved to TI, as I often dealt with SG clients.

Tom
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  #163  
Old 11.09.2020, 08:34
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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Exactly the opposite.

The further removed the immigrants are culturally the more likely you are to have ghettos and other groupings that enable immigrants to stay within their culture and religion.

Yes, but by staying in their ghettos they keep out if the way of locals which is what many Swiss want. Many younger Swiss are annoyed by "loud" Germans that they meet in "Ausgang" - immigrants who sozialise in their own circles only don´t bother them as much.
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  #164  
Old 11.09.2020, 19:33
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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I don't really understand the push on learning national languages from populists politicians and other people. When I arrived I knew nothing. Now I'm fluent in French, going to school for DE, and drinking with Italians to learn IT. Where's the economic benefit for Swiss workers if I'm able to displace 99% of them by taking 10K less income per year?.

If I stayed ignorant I'd be less competitive, and everyone could ask for higher salaries. If they want to stay ahead, they should push the Swiss to learn another national language the way they push foreigners to learn 1 national language. Careful with what you wish for
That's not really worth an answer. You really excel at shifting the goalposts.
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Some of us were hired precisely due to the lack of knowledge of local language, because we can bring business here by speaking auslander strange languages
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  #165  
Old 11.09.2020, 19:43
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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Yes, but by staying in their ghettos they keep out if the way of locals which is what many Swiss want. Many younger Swiss are annoyed by "loud" Germans that they meet in "Ausgang" - immigrants who sozialise in their own circles only don´t bother them as much.
You've also described the reason. "loud" is about behaviour and attitude, not nationality.

WRT being foreign there's no difference between Austrians, southern Germans and northern Germans. However their behaviour and attitude can be vastly different. If you take a closer look the "loud" is probably almost exclusively applied to northern Germans, rarely to people from Hessen, Baden-Württemberg or Bayern, and never to Austrians.
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  #166  
Old 14.09.2020, 06:37
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

Another issue is that many Swiis might be open to a "multi cultural" CH but don´t want to see Zurich especially turning in to just another German city.



It will be interesting to see the result but above all to see what happens after if the referendum is passed. Will it be implemented and what if anything will the EU do?
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  #167  
Old 14.09.2020, 07:40
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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.
It will be interesting to see the result but above all to see what happens after if the referendum is passed. Will it be implemented and what if anything will the EU do?
That’s assuming the referendum will pass. Which doesn’t look terribly likely. My wife and I have already voted as have many others.
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  #168  
Old 14.09.2020, 10:20
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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That's not really worth an answer. You really excel at shifting the goalposts.
I arrived speaking only Spanish and English. I was hired for speaking Spanish and knowing very well a region of interest for the job on the other side of the Atlantic.

Then I felt a bit this pressure to learn the local language, got acquainted with French. Then, moved to the German speaking side and started learning the local thing. Next, I realize some locals feel threatened by the auslander with more than 1 national language in his bag. Then, I realize it's a game impossible to win. If foreigners don't learn enough, they're different. If they learn too much, they're also different, not integrated, etc.

But, no worries in the end. Just realized the fears behind this referendum are the typical of the petite bourgeoisie. The same unhappy middle-class all around the world.
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  #169  
Old 14.09.2020, 10:32
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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I arrived speaking only Spanish and English. I was hired for speaking Spanish and knowing very well a region of interest for the job on the other side of the Atlantic.

Then I felt a bit this pressure to learn the local language, got acquainted with French. Then, moved to the German speaking side and started learning the local thing. Next, I realize some locals feel threatened by the auslander with more than 1 national language in his bag. Then, I realize it's a game impossible to win. If foreigners don't learn enough, they're different. If they learn too much, they're also different, not integrated, etc.

But, no worries in the end. Just realized the fears behind this referendum are the typical of the petite bourgeoisie. The same unhappy middle-class all around the world.
I think your locals are different from our locals.

When we moved to our village we made a real effort to be seen as trying to integrate. We attended the tree burning party in January, the August 1 celebration, and after a couple of years the Conseil General where, surprise surprise, we were given a vote in town matters. They were very tolerant of my attempts to learn French. When we applied for nationality we were welcomed.
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  #170  
Old 14.09.2020, 10:37
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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But, no worries in the end. Just realized the fears behind this referendum are the typical of the petite bourgeoisie. The same unhappy middle-class all around the world.
Actually not. The middle class are much more likely to vote no on this referendum.
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  #171  
Old 14.09.2020, 10:59
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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I arrived speaking only Spanish and English. I was hired for speaking Spanish and knowing very well a region of interest for the job on the other side of the Atlantic.

Then I felt a bit this pressure to learn the local language, got acquainted with French. Then, moved to the German speaking side and started learning the local thing. Next, I realize some locals feel threatened by the auslander with more than 1 national language in his bag. Then, I realize it's a game impossible to win. If foreigners don't learn enough, they're different. If they learn too much, they're also different, not integrated, etc.
Thing is you don't have to win any game, just create your own bubble that includes like-minded people - locals and other foreigners alike - and try to make the best of living in a different culture. For instance one of the most valuable lessons I learned is that before CH I used to take friendships/relations for granted. Here - you have to work harder. Pay more attention to some details you didn't pay attention to back home. Take the initiative more. Not to achieve any golden stars, just to be able to function normally and feel less like a guest and more like a local.
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  #172  
Old 14.09.2020, 11:41
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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Thing is you don't have to win any game, just create your own bubble that includes like-minded people - locals and other foreigners alike - and try to make the best of living in a different culture. For instance one of the most valuable lessons I learned is that before CH I used to take friendships/relations for granted. Here - you have to work harder. Pay more attention to some details you didn't pay attention to back home. Take the initiative more. Not to achieve any golden stars, just to be able to function normally and feel less like a guest and more like a local.

I mean, nothing's particularly wrong. Integration to be happy is possible, I think we already did it. I'm only complaining because I'm not willing to put up with a few negative reactions sometimes not special to CH but common around the world.
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  #173  
Old 17.09.2020, 11:04
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

https://www.gfsbern.ch/wp-content/up...urzbericht.pdf


Looks set to be clearly rejected. Pretty interesting that one SVP bundesrat breaks collegiality by being quoted on the official yes campaign flyer whereas the other one goes on SRF and basically comes out against the initiative.

The campaign movie with the kid was incredibly stupid.

Last edited by Tjaeng; 17.09.2020 at 11:21.
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  #174  
Old 17.09.2020, 11:16
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

Did my part and voted Yes.
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  #175  
Old 17.09.2020, 11:35
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

Did my part and voted Non.
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  #176  
Old 17.09.2020, 11:48
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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Did my part and voted Yes.
Likewise.

Tom
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  #177  
Old 17.09.2020, 12:39
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

My wife voted no too.
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  #178  
Old 17.09.2020, 13:24
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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My wife voted no too.
Switzerland is a little different from rest of world.

If we analyze Switzerland was build by non swiss. In local definition means you can have Swiss passport because you married a Swiss or your parents were not born in Switzerland.

If i analyze where i worked (#1 bank) Swiss people were really 10%. So biggest bank in world is not driven by Swiss. Even CEO is not Swiss.

Lets look at construction, finance etc. So Switzerland is just the land of Schwyz?

Also doubt they are Swiss as per definition above. Tina Turner, Phil Collins.

Switzerland is great because people do not live here 100%. They work in Switzerland and travel everywhere. that is what makes innovation.

Look at IWC in airport. Portuguesisch edition. Do you think if Portuguese was 100% Swiss they could build something amazing? i do not think so

So this referendum is weird
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  #179  
Old 17.09.2020, 13:41
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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If we analyze Switzerland was build by non swiss.
No, it wasn't.
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  #180  
Old 17.09.2020, 13:44
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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My wife voted no too.
Don't forget Tommaso votes for his wife and I'm guessing for his daughters too....
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