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Old 19.08.2020, 19:20
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CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

"The vote is seen as crucial for future relations between non-EU member Switzerland and the 27-nation bloc. "
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/why-swi...ation/45931930

"The initiative wants the Swiss government to suspend an existing bilateral accord with the EU on the free movement of people and to take over full control of the country’s immigration policy.
The deal with the EU must be re-negotiated with Brussels within the next 12 months. Or it has to be scrapped altogether according to the promoters of the initiative.
Under the current free movement accord, both sides allow free access to each other’s labour markets and the right to choose the place of residence."

I could not find any information on this forum about that so I am sharing the info.

I got a B permit.Probably it is to early to get worried.

Last edited by marcofbbr; 19.08.2020 at 19:30. Reason: Kündigungsinitiative
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Old 19.08.2020, 19:23
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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"The vote is seen as crucial for future relations between non-EU member Switzerland and the 27-nation bloc. "
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/why-swi...ation/45931930

I could not find any information on this forum about that so I am sharing the info.

I got a B permit.Probably it is to early to get worried.
Tom will definitely be voting against this
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  #3  
Old 19.08.2020, 19:30
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

Well, they should have implemented the last vote properly instead of fudging it.

Unlikely to affect people who already have a Swiss permit, more the new ones to be issued in future.
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Old 19.08.2020, 19:32
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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Tom will definitely be voting against this
For it (i.e. to scrap it).

Tom
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Old 19.08.2020, 19:40
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

Well, I for one will be voting to offset Tom’s vote.

While I actually would prefer to see a slowdown of EU nationals coming here, our economic health depends on good relations with the EU.

I suspect the larger cities/cantons will reject the proposal while the more rural cantons will accept it.

I believe it requires a majority of voters and cantons which will be difficult to secure.
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Old 19.08.2020, 19:41
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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According to the promoters of the initiative, the current immigration regime puts pressure on jobs and salaries in Switzerland. They say that it leads to an increase in rents for housing and overcrowding in public transport and schools.

They also argue that foreigners are to blame for many incidents of crime in Switzerland and abuse of the country’s welfare system.
So at the same time that they're taking all our jobs, they're simultaneously abusing the welfare system. So essentially, immigrants are better at working than the Swiss and much lazier.

Actually, that one is weird. No one their right mind wants to be on the Swiss welfare system.
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Old 19.08.2020, 19:44
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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Well, I for one will be voting to offset Tom’s vote.
Bummer, as since my daughter moved out at the start of August, I now only have two votes rather than the previous three.

Tom
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Old 19.08.2020, 19:46
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

Well I’ll be voting against it. I’ve already lost my right to work and live in the EU through one passport thanks to the bloody Brexit referendum, I’d like my Swiss passport to continue to give me that option!
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Old 19.08.2020, 19:47
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

We have two, and we are trying to get the two kittens their votes as well.
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Old 19.08.2020, 19:49
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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So at the same time that they're taking all our jobs, they're simultaneously abusing the welfare system. So essentially, immigrants are better at working than the Swiss and much lazier.

Actually, that one is weird. No one their right mind wants to be on the Swiss welfare system.
They don't abuse the welfare system directly, but do cause many more Swiss to need to use it.

The problem is cross-border workers, not immigrants (at least in Ticino).

They increase traffic as they don't use public transport, drive salaries so low that being on the welfare pays better for Swiss residents, etc.

Tom
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Old 19.08.2020, 20:00
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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For it (i.e. to scrap it).

Tom
EU could retaliate in case the agreements get scraped.

Anyway I was also pissed off with my competitors coming from Romania when I was working in the NL. They were dragging down the salaries, especially those contractor who were keeping their tax residence in Romania paying below 10% of taxes where I was paying around 40% in the NL.

So I can understand the problem.

The problem is that politicians allowed for a globalised economy/business , with massive differences between one country and another.
From a business point of view , that's good as you can get high margins paying low salaries. Companies and probably politicians as well, have all the interest to maintain those differences between countries as long as possible..

From a worker point of view, it becomes a "war between poor".
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Old 19.08.2020, 20:07
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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They were dragging down the salaries, especially those contractor who were keeping their tax residence in Romania paying below 10% of taxes where I was paying around 40% in the NL.
.
I don't think that's true. NL is a low taxes country, not the other way around. And btw, plenty of Dutch companies who activate in Ro pay their taxes in NL.
You can be pissed off with everyone you see fit, but you and I, as EU citizens, are in the same boat. And be sure plenty of Swiss don't like the fact that are so many Italian immigrants in CH either. Just saying.
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Old 19.08.2020, 20:11
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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I don't think that's true. NL is a low taxes country, not the other way around. And btw, plenty of Dutch companies who activate in Ro pay their taxes in NL.
You can be pissed off with everyone, but you and I, as EU citizens, are in the same boat.
I wouldn´t call it a low tax country, just that they offer special tax packages for expats. For people not on those incentives, the taxes are much much higher than here (but that is probably in most european countries)
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Old 19.08.2020, 20:12
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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They don't abuse the welfare system directly, but do cause many more Swiss to need to use it.

The problem is cross-border workers, not immigrants (at least in Ticino).

They increase traffic as they don't use public transport, drive salaries so low that being on the welfare pays better for Swiss residents, etc.

Tom
Tom, I agree. But the frontalière problem won’t go away with this vote. The Swiss need to focus on training Swiss residents to do do the jobs being done by cross-border workers. I hope the Covid wake up call will teach the Cantons that we should not be dependent on others for our basic health care.

IIRC to become a nurse in Switzerland requires a university degree, but frontaliers only require a certification in their home country. Something is wrong here.
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Old 19.08.2020, 20:13
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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Bummer, as since my daughter moved out at the start of August, I now only have two votes rather than the previous three.

Tom
You did notice that CH has finally given the right to vote to women, too, correct? Even in TI.

Or are you helping them choose? Do they know what part of the political spectrum they are on?

Last edited by MusicChick; 19.08.2020 at 20:43.
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Old 19.08.2020, 20:25
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

Wasnt there a link too with guns ? If CH wanted to keep the close connection with the EU it would need to ammend its gun laws, like having only mags for max 6 rounds ? This would make the whole melitia thing with everyone having a battle rifle at home pointless. You'd be a laughing stock during a war with all that reloading... like the British with all their insisting on tea breaks at 4 o'clock.
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Old 19.08.2020, 20:26
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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I don't think that's true. NL is a low taxes country, not the other way around. And btw, plenty of Dutch companies who activate in Ro pay their taxes in NL.
It is true.
My colleague was a contractor, self employed registered in Romania. Actually 10% is for incomes below 80k euros(circa) so he was are very interested to keep the rates below that threshold.

1) In general, if you work abroad for less than 183 days , you can be taxed in your (source) country.
2) (illegal part) If you don't register your stay in the NL after you spend 183 days there .... you keep getting that 10% taxation (until the tax office finds you)

I am not saying that all of them use this trick, but it is normal that people coming from low income countries accept low salaries in general. I did the same at the beginning since I was not aware of the rates.

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You can be pissed off with everyone you see fit, but you and I, as EU citizens, are in the same boat.
I hope you understand we, in the EU, are not on "the same boat" . There are deep differences..... google for frugal EU countries

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And be sure plenty of Swiss don't like the fact that are so many Italian immigrants in CH either. Just saying.
That's true for every country. I am aware of it wherever I go

Last edited by marcofbbr; 19.08.2020 at 20:38.
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Old 19.08.2020, 20:27
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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You did notice that CH has finally given the right to vote to women, too, correct? Even in TI.

Or are you helping them choose? Do they know what part of a political spectrum they are on?
I help my GF choose, therefore she in effect is on the cheepskate side of the political spectrum (if there is such a thing)
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Old 19.08.2020, 20:41
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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Wasnt there a link too with guns ? If CH wanted to keep the close connection with the EU it would need to ammend its gun laws, like having only mags for max 6 rounds ? This would make the whole melitia thing with everyone having a battle rifle at home pointless. You'd be a laughing stock during a war with all that reloading... like the British with all their insisting on tea breaks at 4 o'clock.
That was a vote last year. It didn’t actually apply to army issued weapons.
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Old 19.08.2020, 20:49
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Re: CH - EU agreemeent on immigration at stake.

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I help my GF choose, therefore she in effect is on the cheepskate side of the political spectrum (if there is such a thing)
Lol. What does she help you choose, in return? Hairdo? She brushes your bun I bet. Oh...that came out weird.

Anyways - I saw the headlines all out about this on local kiosques, it looks like a major Eurosceptic move. I wonder. Does anyone think that CV might have had something to do with this?
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