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View Poll Results: Is the initiative a good idea
Yes, I am in favour 14 31.82%
No, I am against 20 45.45%
Can’t make up my mind 4 9.09%
The what ? 6 13.64%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 02.11.2020, 12:03
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Upcoming vote , konzernverantwortungsinitiative [Responsible Business Initiative]

I guess the big one in the upcoming vote will be the Konzernverantwortungsinitiative .

Anybody feel like discussing this?

On the pro side I totally buy into the concept of corporations not being allowed to use offshoring as a loophole for unethical activities .

The libertarian in me is shouting red tape and meddling . Also The concept of Swiss law suddenly being applicable anywhere is a bit , well, exactly like what we criticize America about .
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Old 02.11.2020, 12:09
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Re: Upcoming vote , komzernverantwortungsinitiative

Responsible Business Initiative, if you would like to amend your Title
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Old 02.11.2020, 12:31
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Responsible Business Initiative, if you would like to amend your Title
Thanks for the English term, title now amended, although I can't help feeling that if the OP wants to discuss it, maybe it would be a good idea to give some basic info about what it is about?
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Old 02.11.2020, 13:16
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Re: Upcoming vote , komzernverantwortungsinitiative [Responsible Business Initiative]

More info about the initiative under referendum here, even in English:

https://corporatejustice.ch/about-the-initiative/

Quote:
Under the Responsible Business Initiative, companies will be legally obliged to incorporate respect for human rights and the environment in all their business activities. This mandatory due diligence will also be applied to Swiss based companies’ activities abroad.

The mandatory due diligence instrument is based on the United Nations Guiding Principles on Business and Human Rights. According to these principles, companies must first review all their business relationships and activities with a view to identifying potential risks to people and the environment. They must then take effective measures to address the potentially negative impacts identified and report in a transparent manner on the risks identified and the measures taken.
I favor the spirit of the initiative, albeit I think the implementation it's too much, even dumb.

Quote:
If the initiative succeeds, how will companies’ application of mandatory due diligence be guaranteed?

In order to ensure that all companies carry out their due diligence obligations, Swiss based firms will be liable for human rights abuses and environmental violations caused abroad by companies under their control. This provision will enable victims of human rights violations and environmental damage to seek redress in Switzerland.

Moreover, when a company can credibly demonstrate to the Court that it carried out adequate due diligence and that it took all necessary measures to prevent the violations, it will be exempted from liability. The initiative therefore has a preventive effect as it provides companies with an actual incentive to comply with their obligations.
At my job I have submit proof that the company is on time on the VAT (MSWT) payments, workers social insurance and 2nd pillar in a lot of offers to clients. This is something easily quantifiable, verifiable and falsifiable.

The initiative talks about human rights and environmental violations.....this is a mess because around the world there's no consensus on human rights and environmental regulations. Is the death penalty compatible with human rights? In other places men are equal, but women don't. In some places some chemicals are banned, in others don't, which environmental law apply?

The spirit of the initiative is OK, but it seems lazy and not realistic to rely on UN documents instead of a more pragmatic list of things to check that can be applicable around the world. In this sense, corruption is easier to define and prosecute. Corruption is important because it's closely related to human rights and environmental disgraces.
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Old 02.11.2020, 13:25
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Re: Upcoming vote , komzernverantwortungsinitiative [Responsible Business Initiative]

In this case, how do I change my vote to 'against'?

Tom
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Old 02.11.2020, 13:45
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Re: Upcoming vote , komzernverantwortungsinitiative [Responsible Business Initiative]

One of my objections is a bit like this.

In countries like Uganda there is a lot of anti-gay legislation.

If Switzerland wants to hold Swiss companies accounatble for upholding Swiss ethics abroad, then what is to stop Uganda upholding ist own "ethics" and passing a similar law, saying "if you can do that, the so can we". So a Swiss company who partners with a Ugandan company could suddenly be held to account by the Ugandan government for implementing gay friendly policies in Uganda, or even in Switzerland.
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Old 02.11.2020, 13:52
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Re: Upcoming vote , komzernverantwortungsinitiative [Responsible Business Initiative]

The voting docs showed up in the mail this morning. I will have to give this a careful look.

But, in principle, I think that the carrot is always better than the stick. Or perhaps a big carrot and a little stick.
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Old 02.11.2020, 14:01
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Re: Upcoming vote , komzernverantwortungsinitiative [Responsible Business Initiative]

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One of my objections is a bit like this.

In countries like Uganda there is a lot of anti-gay legislation.

If Switzerland wants to hold Swiss companies accounatble for upholding Swiss ethics abroad, then what is to stop Uganda upholding ist own "ethics" and passing a similar law, saying "if you can do that, the so can we". So a Swiss company who partners with a Ugandan company could suddenly be held to account by the Ugandan government for implementing gay friendly policies in Uganda, or even in Switzerland.
I think the point is that a Swiss company should not partner with a Ugandan company that does not match Swiss ethics, and similarly they should not take business from a Ugandan company that may seek to undermine Swiss ethics in reverse.
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Old 02.11.2020, 14:02
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Re: Upcoming vote , komzernverantwortungsinitiative [Responsible Business Initiative]

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One of my objections is a bit like this.

In countries like Uganda there is a lot of anti-gay legislation.

If Switzerland wants to hold Swiss companies accounatble for upholding Swiss ethics abroad, then what is to stop Uganda upholding ist own "ethics" and passing a similar law, saying "if you can do that, the so can we". So a Swiss company who partners with a Ugandan company could suddenly be held to account by the Ugandan government for implementing gay friendly policies in Uganda, or even in Switzerland.

There's no need to apply local laws on other country when the crooks are free of money laundering charges just by paying a fine in Genève. Maybe the referendum should be about ensuring local laws are effectively applied locally https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss-l...probe/41471256
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Old 02.11.2020, 14:12
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Re: Upcoming vote , komzernverantwortungsinitiative [Responsible Business Initiative]

I’d like to some moves to political candidates declaring all of their contributions over f100. And for politicians to recuse themselves on subjects where they have received a contribution from one side or another.
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Old 02.11.2020, 16:28
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Re: Upcoming vote , komzernverantwortungsinitiative [Responsible Business Initiative]

Voted no, in the best case scenario it will be another box ticking exercise for the compliance/sustainability officer because they already have similar processes/documentation in place (= inefficacious additional burocracy), in the worst case scenario the targeted company will move HQ abroad which is bad for Switzerland and doesn't change a thing for the locals and Switzerland attractiveness as HQ location will decrease.

Last edited by Meerkat33; 02.11.2020 at 16:40.
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Old 02.11.2020, 17:51
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Re: Upcoming vote , komzernverantwortungsinitiative [Responsible Business Initiative]

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Voted no, in the best case scenario it will be another box ticking exercise for the compliance/sustainability officer because they already have similar processes/documentation in place (= inefficacious additional burocracy), in the worst case scenario the targeted company will move HQ abroad which is bad for Switzerland and doesn't change a thing for the locals and Switzerland attractiveness as HQ location will decrease.
You received the ballot already?
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Old 02.11.2020, 18:04
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Re: Upcoming vote , komzernverantwortungsinitiative [Responsible Business Initiative]

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You received the ballot already?
Our’s arrived this morning ...
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Old 02.11.2020, 18:10
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Re: Upcoming vote , komzernverantwortungsinitiative [Responsible Business Initiative]

I kind of like the intention, but this will just be another payday for auditors. Like we don't have enough of this going on already.
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Old 02.11.2020, 22:47
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Re: Upcoming vote , komzernverantwortungsinitiative [Responsible Business Initiative]

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I’d like to some moves to political candidates declaring all of their contributions over f100. And for politicians to recuse themselves on subjects where they have received a contribution from one side or another.
Don't donations have to be declared already?

A bigger problem occurs with delayed rewards.

So say a politician leaves office and gets a job on the board of some big corporation that oh, by coincidence, reaps the reards of his or her political decisions.

For example, i believe ex Bundesrat Leuenberger got a job on the board of Implenia who got to work on major infrastructure projects he had kicked off during his time in office. But that's all legal by the book.

And some might argue, what else can retired politicians do? They only get jobs in fields where they have expertese, and where they have expertese they have interests.

Should a MP who is a teacher not be allowed to vote on questions regarding education? Or an MP who is a doctor be allowed to vote on a medical matter? Surely that would be the area they are best qualified to have a valid opinion on. But seeing they had in the past accepted money from some organisation with an interest, they would not be allowed to vote by your proposal.

In other words, it won't work.
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Old 02.11.2020, 23:38
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Re: Upcoming vote , komzernverantwortungsinitiative [Responsible Business Initiative]

If it fails in referendum can the UN organize another toothless Climate Accord and make it their consolation prize?
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Old 03.11.2020, 01:19
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Re: Upcoming vote , komzernverantwortungsinitiative [Responsible Business Initiative]

I feel that if the entire planet does not apply high standards, those who apply them will cost so much that whatever services/goods they produce will be soon drowned under cheap production in a low-ethics place anyways. Swiss neutrality does not mean exporting particular ideas/patterns abroad, me thinks. Maybe that's what the initiative is about. Is it about discouraging production abroad and quitting outsourcing and instead produce here? Is it about protecting the local job market instead of exporting high ethical standards abroad?
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Old 03.11.2020, 11:51
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Re: Upcoming vote , komzernverantwortungsinitiative [Responsible Business Initiative]

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Maybe that's what the initiative is about. Is it about discouraging production abroad and quitting outsourcing and instead produce here? Is it about protecting the local job market instead of exporting high ethical standards abroad?
They mention Syngenta and Glencore directly in the promotional text in the official red explanation booklet therefore I believe that is not the objective.
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Old 03.11.2020, 12:26
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Re: Upcoming vote , komzernverantwortungsinitiative [Responsible Business Initiative]

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If it fails in referendum can the UN organize another toothless Climate Accord and make it their consolation prize?
Sorry, but where is the link. Or are you simply trolling?
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Old 03.11.2020, 12:53
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Re: Upcoming vote , komzernverantwortungsinitiative [Responsible Business Initiative]

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I feel that if the entire planet does not apply high standards, those who apply them will cost so much that whatever services/goods they produce will be soon drowned under cheap production in a low-ethics place anyways. Swiss neutrality does not mean exporting particular ideas/patterns abroad, me thinks. Maybe that's what the initiative is about. Is it about discouraging production abroad and quitting outsourcing and instead produce here? Is it about protecting the local job market instead of exporting high ethical standards abroad?
Yes, that's exactly what happens today. Fair-trade/bio/vegan products cost more than cheap production from low ethics places.

Since the prices paid by the consumer are higher, the incentive for producers is to change their ways. Higher prices are carrots, the initiative is a stick that might smash things that should not be smashed.
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