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  #41  
Old 17.12.2020, 20:42
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Re: Switzerland: Secret deal with China

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with respect i dont know how you can say that people's concern about china is emotional!

Let me put this into context:


1. We had several discussions on China on this forum which all get very heated and emotional... and at the same time in all honesty rather banal, stereotyping and uninformed to say the least. Some were rather extreme, some outright racist.

2. I have lived in Asia for some years and am very interested in the region. Maybe knowing a few more Asians than most gave a slightly different perspective on some things... and I read journalism from Asia, not just about it.

So yeah, when I think I am having some rather balanced arguments am I regularly getting shouted down. Greenmounts post being a great example. Simply put:

Greenmount: Thats an agreement allowing China to repatriate political dissidents...

Me: All the agreement does is to allow CH to ask China for help when they need it. There is no proof for your claim - actually is nobody even claiming that...

Greenmount: See, they even repatriated REFUGEES!


My view: No, China was asked to interview and help with a list of people CH didnt want to have in the country. Two of them apparently asked for asylumn. That doesnt mean that they are indeed victims of political or other violence in any way. The example I gave in this thread shows that even the worst war criminals can apply for asylumn.

Dont get me wrong: There are plenty of topics around China that all deserve a strong public debate in Switzerland. That surely includes the human rights situation, it includes the territorial disputes from the South China sea to the Himalayas... it includes the situation of HK, Taiwan, it includes the environmental damage done by the Chinese fishing fleet in the pacific, the Chinese criminal networks that currently help Mexican cartels to launder money... the list is really really long. And I am not excusing any of that. But I do realize that a lot of people on this forum as well as in the public seem to treat China very differently from other countries. Simple example: Germany send an entire plane full of refused asylum seekers back to Afghanistan yesterday. I dont think the Afghan government has in any way a better track record than the Chinese. Nobody cares.


P.S: While I largely agree to your opinion that Switzerland never had an issue to deal with not so great countries (especially if they brought a lot of money to Swiss banks)... i think its fair and balanced to also mention that Switzerland is pretty much the birthplace of human rights and that Swiss politicians had many times diplomatic roles and missions that helped in that area where some bigger and more powerful western countries failed... I dont think this agreement is evil for the simple reason that I trust the Swiss government enough to believe that they would not play part in a game that really was about political dissidents. The Swiss take civil liberties very seriously (which is the exact reason why their covid response is so bad...)
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  #42  
Old 17.12.2020, 23:26
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Re: Switzerland: Secret deal with China

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Let me put this into context:


1. We had several discussions on China on this forum which all get very heated and emotional... and at the same time in all honesty rather banal, stereotyping and uninformed to say the least. Some were rather extreme, some outright racist.
Yeah well, it gets like that for almost every other country and you don't seem to be bothered otherwise. Next.....



I'm not sure if contesting "democratic" processes has something to do with this but hey ho, suit yourself. As I said, I for one have commented on two threads and on both you accused me of things I didn't even think about. You're constantly trying to shut people down in a "superior" manner and then accuse the very same people of things they didn't do. WTF? You're very bored or what?

Seriously, I'm done discussing with you. We're not EU here and you're not Ursula von der Leyen.


So, please tell me who was up in his arms on the China related threads?

https://www.englishforum.ch/internat...ty-threat.html

https://www.englishforum.ch/internat...ina-world.html

https://www.englishforum.ch/family-m...e-concern.html

https://www.englishforum.ch/internat...china-usa.html

https://www.englishforum.ch/internat...rip-china.html

https://www.englishforum.ch/internat...l-economy.html
..........

..........

https://www.englishforum.ch/internat...ing-world.html


I'm too tired to look for all those famous racist threads. I don't comment on this stuff. I think it's all in your head.


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2. I have lived in Asia for some years and am very interested in the region. Maybe knowing a few more Asians than most gave a slightly different perspective on some things... and I read journalism from Asia, not just about it.

So yeah, when I think I am having some rather balanced arguments am I regularly getting shouted down. Greenmounts post being a great example. Simply put:
Did it ever cross your mind that we've all lived in regions that you and other people habitually comment on here and we also think we have a much more balanced and knowledgeable opinion? Yet you seem to dismiss others here because you always, always know better.... I have never contested your right to have an opinion. They're like those things everyone's got one....

The irony. And the nerve you've got.

People will continue to debate China's human rights record on platforms and in environments much more suitable than EF.

Last edited by greenmount; 18.12.2020 at 09:26.
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  #43  
Old 18.12.2020, 11:40
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Re: Switzerland: Secret deal with China

I would debate your points but I honestly dont understand why you are throwing these links at me. An argument gets better with sources, but they should be somehow related to the topic... half of those didnt even make sense on their own.



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I'm too tired to look for all those famous racist threads. I don't comment on this stuff. I think it's all in your head.

Here you go: https://www.englishforum.ch/complain...-invasion.html


Started with a certain Texan user blaming Chinese tourists to be the end of the western civilization as we know it... and turned into a TonyClifton shit show on how the chinese developed a bio weapon called covid and released it on the world...

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Did it ever cross your mind that we've all lived in regions that you and other people habitually comment on here and we also think we have a much more balanced and knowledgeable opinion?
So you a keeping a grudge because some people made some comments on Eastern Europe and that entitles you to what exactly? Your points on HK were simply factually wrong and so is your claim in this thread. No matter how many things you throw around. Thats a key problem with you: the difference between facts and opinion. We can have different, even opposite opinions about a topic and that's totally fine. You however keep on making up facts that match your opinion instead and yes, thats something not only this forum could do with a lot less...
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  #44  
Old 21.03.2021, 18:04
hoover1
 
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Re: Switzerland: Secret deal with China

and 6 years from now we be seeing elderly couple visiting schools and telling their story about North Korea detention and great Swiss government coming to resque them as they just been 'site seeing' tourist visiting NK - enroute via China on their way back.

very same as story we saw for couple of friendly swiss that helped on nuclear program in Middle East being just there by accident ... story goes on and one.

Trade is trade and Swiss are good at it.

ps. I do not believe policy is any different than have any foreign-state security services present on CH soil under 24/7 surveillance so unlikely they went for a trip to Disneyland in the "Zwischenzeit"
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