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Old 28.02.2021, 11:20
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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Am mostly concerned about the E-ID.
Is big brother taking control of Switzerland and the world?
Yes.
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  #302  
Old 28.02.2021, 11:42
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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I'm not sure how will this be implemented though....through fines?

And administering a fine involves the identification of a person. Suppose people don't alway have IDs on them. What next? Either way, it looks absurd imho.
But what is different to any other fine the police may want to slap on you ?

There are always a couple of crafty ones who manage to get away but for the most part the police do manage
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Old 28.02.2021, 12:03
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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I can almost see the world newspapers preparing the headlines “Swiss Hypocracy” in advance with photos of people queuing in voting lines with masks on and to do it on the eve of International Women’s Day.

These initiatives makes a mockery of our values in a free society with freedom of speech, religious expressions and freedom to wear whatever you want.

Obviously a small minority is being targeted by so called Liberal Swiss no matter how you spin this and this vote does not bring anything good in this world except hate and resentment, which is not good for anyone.

We should set a good example to our children and grandchildren that we tried our best to leave the world a better place for them.

For me it’s a:
No
No
Undecided
Some good points.

I do picture the international press running away with that one. Very vividly. And dragging up all the old anti-Swiss hyperbole about the gnomes in Zürich hiding away Nazi gold and people in Appenzell eating puppies.

And in doing so they will risk being seen as hypocrites themselves, suddenly and opportunely rediscovering their love of unlimited free speech (well, until the next thing comes along that doesn't suit them). While telling us the vote needs to be repeated until they get things their way.

That sort of talk will only go down well with those who have an axe to grind with Switzerland anyway.

Which is maybe why fewer and fewer people are taking the press seriously any more.

The international press typically don't do a good job at explaining Switzerland very well. It's all too nuanced for them so it's a topic they like to stay away from as much as they can, except when something big like this comes along, when they can break it down crudely. The Swiss on the other hand don't really mind being misunderstood or ignored. In fact they find it amusing.

And they don't taylor their votes to please foreign journalists.
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  #304  
Old 28.02.2021, 12:13
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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And here I was thinking that it was mainly posturing in a symbolic way since it concerns only a few individuals. So it is not so benign and it could actually pass? If so, doesn't it reflect what people here actually want and the innitiative then justified?
It's rather frightening to think you've written innumerous posts on this thread without knowing the extent of the ban.
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Old 28.02.2021, 12:23
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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Some good points.

I do picture the international press running away with that one. Very vividly. And dragging up all the old anti-Swiss hyperbole about the gnomes in Zürich hiding away Nazi gold and people in Appenzell eating puppies.

And in doing so they will risk being seen as hypocrites themselves, suddenly and opportunely rediscovering their love of unlimited free speech (well, until the next thing comes along that doesn't suit them). While telling us the vote needs to be repeated until they get things their way.

That sort of talk will only go down well with those who have an axe to grind with Switzerland anyway.

Which is maybe why fewer and fewer people are taking the press seriously any more.

The international press typically don't do a good job at explaining Switzerland very well. It's all too nuanced for them so it's a topic they like to stay away from as much as they can, except when something big like this comes along, when they can break it down crudely. The Swiss on the other hand don't really mind being misunderstood or ignored. In fact they find it amusing.

And they don't taylor their votes to please foreign journalists.
In which country do people tailor their votes to please foreign journalists?

I can't think of one of the top of my head.
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Old 28.02.2021, 12:34
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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It's rather frightening to think you've written innumerous posts on this thread without knowing the extent of the ban.
Interesting. Just my posts you decided to be frightened by? Or how about those numerous one that mentioned how the ban affects only very few individuals here in CH.

So, afterall - it is a significant issue.
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  #307  
Old 28.02.2021, 12:46
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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The Swiss on the other hand don't really mind being misunderstood or ignored. In fact they find it amusing.
Indeed. But I like that they explain to those who are genuinely and sincerely interested in understanding.
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  #308  
Old 28.02.2021, 13:43
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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In which country do people tailor their votes to please foreign journalists?

I can't think of one of the top of my head.
Exactly.

But a lot of people on the EF believe it matters.
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  #309  
Old 28.02.2021, 13:56
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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Interesting. Just my posts you decided to be frightened by? Or how about those numerous one that mentioned how the ban affects only very few individuals here in CH.

So, afterall - it is a significant issue.
This post makes no sense whatsoever.
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Old 28.02.2021, 14:15
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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Actually, it WILL most likely pass, and the innitiative IS telling women not to wear burquas and NOT asking people what they think about it!

Tom
From the most recent surveys I can find, it's most likely going to be a toss up with the lead of the yes vote being within the margin of error.

E-ID will most likely be rejected and the Indonesia thing accepted.

But none of them by any massive landslide. Opinions seem to be quite divided, so anything is still possible, and the undecided voters will be a factor to watch out for.

In my opinion the campaigns (on both sides) have been quite lame and predictable and we haven't really seen many good or quotable arguments coming from either side.

Last edited by amogles; 28.02.2021 at 14:26.
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  #311  
Old 28.02.2021, 15:19
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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I live in Geneva, often travelled for work to Zurich... no Burqa here and there... And I strongly doubt that they have some in Appenzello or Uri.

Even in the France Voisine here (where the % of muslims is def higher than GE) no Buqas...

The only place in Switzerland where you see them is Interlaken as it's the favourite spot for Rich Saudi Tourists...
Not true at all ... I was once at the Manor cafeteria in Zurich and literally 30 something women came in full burka with even eye coverings during the span of my lunch. (Perhaps there was a tour group?) Luzern city center as well as here in Bern during the Summer you see many.
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  #312  
Old 28.02.2021, 15:46
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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In my opinion the campaigns (on both sides) have been quite lame and predictable and we haven't really seen many good or quotable arguments coming from either side.
Because these are 'first world problems' that few people have strong feelings about.

Tom
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Old 28.02.2021, 16:18
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

I voted

yes
no
yes
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  #314  
Old 28.02.2021, 17:36
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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Because these are 'first world problems' that few people have strong feelings about.

Tom
But democracy starts with whatever issues, tbh. Even those considered useless. There are some strong convictions in this thread, and certainty. I do not have either strong conviction about any of the issues, nor certainty, except what I wrote many times before - the thrill for the locals that they have the opportunity to express their views on this. It is really important. And if the innitiatives pass, the innitiators were correct in their visions. So, 1st world or not, maybe some of the innitiatives don't concern only 1st world exclusively.

I also fail to see some potential damage, in direct democracy things seem quite quickly reversible.
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Old 28.02.2021, 18:23
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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In which country do people tailor their votes to please foreign journalists?

I can't think of one of the top of my head.
I can't think of any either. But sometimes foreign journalists adore to point the finger at other countries problems because it makes them feel all righteous and good about themselves? Or about their own countries?Unless they're just reporting things, not making any judgements or analysis.

Last edited by greenmount; 28.02.2021 at 19:42.
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Old 28.02.2021, 19:47
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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I also fail to see some potential damage, in direct democracy things seem quite quickly reversible.
That's a pretty sweeping statement which is of course wrong unless you're only thinking of a burka ban.

The U.K's Brexit vote was direct democracy in action. Would that be quickly reversible?

Closer to home, a recent referendum decided to abolish the building of any more nuclear power stations.
If, in the future, people realised this was the wrong decision to make and Switzerland now needed the extra power these could generate (to charge the batteries of all the electric cars in Switzerland after fossil-fuel burning cars are phased out), this isn't quickly reversible as it probably takes at least twenty years to plan, build, and commission a nuclear power station.
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Old 28.02.2021, 19:58
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

I'd just like to share that this was the first time for me to cast my Swiss vote, since I was granted citizenship last November.

My husband still doesn't voluntarily participate in voting, but I help him out by doing all of the research and then we discuss the issues together. It is a nice way of doing it together
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Old 28.02.2021, 20:02
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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I'd just like to share that this was the first time for me to cast my Swiss vote, since I was granted citizenship last November.

My husband still doesn't voluntarily participate in voting, but I help him out by doing all of the research and then we discuss the issues together. It is a nice way of doing it together
Same way we've always voted, except that I'm the one who fills in the forms.

Tom
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  #319  
Old 28.02.2021, 21:54
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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Some good points.

I do picture the international press running away with that one. Very vividly. And dragging up all the old anti-Swiss hyperbole about the gnomes in Zürich hiding away Nazi gold and people in Appenzell eating puppies.

And in doing so they will risk being seen as hypocrites themselves, suddenly and opportunely rediscovering their love of unlimited free speech (well, until the next thing comes along that doesn't suit them). While telling us the vote needs to be repeated until they get things their way.

That sort of talk will only go down well with those who have an axe to grind with Switzerland anyway.

Which is maybe why fewer and fewer people are taking the press seriously any more.

The international press typically don't do a good job at explaining Switzerland very well. It's all too nuanced for them so it's a topic they like to stay away from as much as they can, except when something big like this comes along, when they can break it down crudely. The Swiss on the other hand don't really mind being misunderstood or ignored. In fact they find it amusing.

And they don't taylor their votes to please foreign journalists.
For a split second I thought you're talking about UK. I had no idea there's an anti-Switzerland bias. I am aware of other biases thank you very much, but not of this one.

For me it's amusing how recently naturalised citizens are taking these things a lot more seriously than most Swiss I know. But I probably know the wrong people.

I doubt many people will want CH to repeat the vote, after all is nothing compared to Brexit. Brexit was important for many, what happens in CH not so much.

Last edited by greenmount; 28.02.2021 at 22:15.
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Old 28.02.2021, 22:39
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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I'd just like to share that this was the first time for me to cast my Swiss vote, since I was granted citizenship last November.

My husband still doesn't voluntarily participate in voting, but I help him out by doing all of the research and then we discuss the issues together. It is a nice way of doing it together
For the sake of my kids, who will both have a vote this time around, I try to do it as I learn it round the dinner table in Ireland more than 40 years ago. My grandfather and grand uncle were both veterans of the Irish war of independence, men who had fought for the right to vote. And what I came away with:
- You should never take your right to vote and participate in the process for granted, there are many around in the world who will never get such an opportunity.
- You have a duty as a citizen to try and make the best possible decision for your country as you see it and that means you need to understand both sides of the proposal.
Mind you they never cared which way people voted, but they got really PO with people who did not make the effort to cast an informed vote.

So I play devils advocate at the dinner table in the weeks before the vote and challenge them to explain and defend the issues. In the hope that when the time comes they’ll cast an informed vote although I have no intention of asking them what way the went in the end.
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