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  #161  
Old 01.02.2021, 20:05
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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Of course like in any society there is the idiotic 1% like these morons in this picture. The problem in Western Society we are spoon fed by the media that all Muslims are terrorists. If anyone in the West cared to actually try to understand Islam properly they would realize that Islam is not the problem but the cultures in this part of the world misconstrue the message of Islam, just pick up a copy of the Quran and give it a good read.

It’s not that long ago that the Crusaders were riding out to the Middle East beheading innocent folk.
I think (hope), that Flyin' was not criticising Islam per se, at all. He made a point that he can post it and we can talk about it, freely. That you have your space to react to it, critically.I think that is as imporpant as people in this country having their right to voice their opinion on the issue, March 7.
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  #162  
Old 01.02.2021, 23:55
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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Of course like in any society there is the idiotic 1% like these morons in this picture. The problem in Western Society we are spoon fed by the media that all Muslims are terrorists. If anyone in the West cared to actually try to understand Islam properly they would realize that Islam is not the problem but the cultures in this part of the world misconstrue the message of Islam, just pick up a copy of the Quran and give it a good read.

It’s not that long ago that the Crusaders were riding out to the Middle East beheading innocent folk.
…I did read Quran 4 times and about 20 times the Bible, as I had at my Philosophy Year Project ''Islam versus Christianity common ideas and divergences''...I am not researching who killed more, is about the incompatibility of tradition from Middle East which didn't evolved from Middle Ages to integrate into a far more progressist society of Europe...I can tell you from history of my people, who opposed Islamization for more than 500 years with success...
…three years ago I was project manger of a site in Canary Warf and one day two girls escaped from an apartment near to my site rented by Saudis, I have to call police to save this girls from the abusive man that bought them as wives...
…I can't tolerate a culture which is selling woman as animals...woman are men equal and punctum...
…look at the graph of the most progressive Islamic city and you understand of Islam tolerance of the other religions...
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  #163  
Old 03.02.2021, 14:57
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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  • Burkaban. No more face coverings (which is amusing since we're all wearing masks)
  • E-ID Initiative. This will allow residents as well as citizens to prove their ID on the Internet (I guess superseding SuisseID in some way)
  • Trade agreement with Indonesia. Removing customs charges both ways to open the market between Switzerland and Indonesia

From me, it's a no, yes, IDGAS.....

(let's not get the Burkaban discussion too mental please )
Yes
Yes
Yes
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  #164  
Old 08.02.2021, 20:24
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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…I did read Quran 4 times and about 20 times the Bible, as I had at my Philosophy Year Project ''Islam versus Christianity common ideas and divergences''...I am not researching who killed more, is about the incompatibility of tradition from Middle East which didn't evolved from Middle Ages to integrate into a far more progressist society of Europe...I can tell you from history of my people, who opposed Islamization for more than 500 years with success...
…three years ago I was project manger of a site in Canary Warf and one day two girls escaped from an apartment near to my site rented by Saudis, I have to call police to save this girls from the abusive man that bought them as wives...
…I can't tolerate a culture which is selling woman as animals...woman are men equal and punctum...
…look at the graph of the most progressive Islamic city and you understand of Islam tolerance of the other religions...
Well done for rescuing these women from an abusive man but I don’t believe we can blame Islam on an isolated incident. Should we blame Josef Fritzl on Christianity or the various cases we often read about of women and children locked in cellars from the USA.

At the end of the day Islam is the fastest growing religion on the planet and Turkeys population expands at a rate of 4-500,000 citizens per year so the growth of Islamic believers is exponential.

We can go back a century ago to the Armenian Genocide or the Greek wars to see why these ethnic minorities contracted but every country has skeletons in their closets. In my own country the heroic war heroes who finally drove out the British also have blood on their hands when it comes to the Protestant minorities in some areas.

Interesting article on the Washington post by a Female Muslim UK politician in regard to the Swiss vote.

https://www.google.de/amp/s/www.wash...outputType=amp
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  #165  
Old 08.02.2021, 20:28
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

Not Islam, but some cultures who use Islam in their own 'way'- just like so many Christian groups.

When the SVP/UDC comes out in favour of saving those poor women from male domination - out of their good hearts- or rather highjacked for political reasons based on anti- certain cultures- you know things are very wrong. As it was with Farage and Brexit.
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  #166  
Old 08.02.2021, 22:44
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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When the SVP/UDC comes out in favour of saving those poor women from male domination - out of their good hearts- or rather highjacked for political reasons based on anti- certain cultures- you know things are very wrong. As it was with Farage and Brexit.
Last week there was a TV debate where a representative from the SVP claimed women who wore the veil were being suppressed by their husbands and fathers. He then went on to say that those who wore it were trying to provoke Swiss society.

Muslim women = Schrodinger's cats
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  #167  
Old 08.02.2021, 22:52
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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If anyone in the West cared to actually try to understand Islam properly they would realize that Islam is not the problem but the cultures in this part of the world misconstrue the message of Islam, just pick up a copy of the Quran and give it a good read.
That is a weird argument. Isn't Islam a direct product of these cultures you claim are the problem?
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  #168  
Old 08.02.2021, 23:02
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

Today I was driving and was surprised to see a huge billboard on the side of the road that had an image of a woman's face wearing a burka along with the words "STOP EXTREMISM" written across it.

I'm tempted to sneak over there one night with some spray paint and change it to "STOP XENOPHOBIA."
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  #169  
Old 09.02.2021, 12:38
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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That is a weird argument. Isn't Islam a direct product of these cultures you claim are the problem?
I would not say so, if you read the Quran it actually promotes women’s rights, don’t forget the Prophet Muhammad’s wife ran her own business.

It’s the cultures that try to change Islam like another poster said is the same regarding cultures and Christianity.

I am sure most of those that attacked the Capitol building that led to the murder of that police office claim to be Christians trying to save America. If you follow Christianity or Islam as it was written you are judged by your human actions and not just idiotic rhetoric.
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  #170  
Old 10.02.2021, 00:59
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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Well done for rescuing these women from an abusive man but I don’t believe we can blame Islam on an isolated incident. Should we blame Josef Fritzl on Christianity or the various cases we often read about of women and children locked in cellars from the USA.

At the end of the day Islam is the fastest growing religion on the planet and Turkeys population expands at a rate of 4-500,000 citizens per year so the growth of Islamic believers is exponential.

We can go back a century ago to the Armenian Genocide or the Greek wars to see why these ethnic minorities contracted but every country has skeletons in their closets. In my own country the heroic war heroes who finally drove out the British also have blood on their hands when it comes to the Protestant minorities in some areas.

Interesting article on the Washington post by a Female Muslim UK politician in regard to the Swiss vote.

https://www.google.de/amp/s/www.wash...outputType=amp
...is not just one case, that is wide spread through Islam and if you read the Quran, then you should know that Islam is religion and culture at the same time...
…I hope that Swiss people will vote as they doing always, wise...and will avoid to transform Switzerland in another Luton ruled by Sharia Laws...
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  #171  
Old 10.02.2021, 01:43
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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Interesting article on the Washington post by a Female Muslim UK politician in regard to the Swiss vote.

https://www.google.de/amp/s/www.wash...outputType=amp

Article is behind a paywall, but I wonder what qualifies a Muslim UK politician to pass judgement on a Swiss internal matter. I wonder how many years she lived in Switzerland and how many Swedish newspapers she reads daily. Or whether she is maybe just regurgitating her own uninformed intolerant prejudice while going through the motion of preaching tolerance to others.

EDIT: I just managed to read the article. She is even more clueless than I thought, even getting some pretty simple facts wrong. At least she manages to twice mention she is writing a book about her hair being pink. So the piece is just a plug to sell her book and she is using the Swiss vote for her own ends rather than actually having something interesting to say about it.

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  #172  
Old 10.02.2021, 02:06
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

no to the burka ban tbh. i dont think banning face coverings in public is a good idea generally, except if you're the security services and whatever other businesses and institutions these connect with. the way protest and certain political behaviour is policed and increasingly criminalised, covering up your face when it's time to protest is a good idea i would think.

and tbh, re the muslim women, i wouldn't have an opinion really until i hear from muslim women, lots of them, which i never do and no-one seems to GAF about anyway. everyone just assumes on their behalf.

IMO generally speaking women's clothes and appearances have been policed formally and informally since forever. remember those pervert cops making a muslim girl leave the beach in Nice coz what? i dont know exaclty, she wasnt showing her tits maybe. well in france in the 60s there were riots against girls wearing mini skirts, and girls were attacked for wearing them.

its not 'make up your mind' or 'hypocricy'. its just more of the same policing of women by insecure men.
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  #173  
Old 10.02.2021, 10:04
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

If it was a ban against burkas, I'd vote yes. Niqabs are another matter simply because I don't the motivation behind it. However, I'd prefer if women chose not to wear the niqab when travelling internationally simply because it inspires female oppression.

And here's another question: what if men chose to wear niqabs? Would you feel differently about the matter?

I'm still on the fence about this.
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  #174  
Old 10.02.2021, 10:15
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

As I understand it, it is not a burqa specific ban but face covering (Like a mask, let's be honest).

I am torn on this point because I don't like face coverings in general while having nothing against Muslim people or their traditions but I also don't approve of a 'Wild, wild west' face coverings whereby we can't identify anyone on the streets. Moreover, it simply flies in the face of Suisse culture and I think you have to adapt to the country you live in. Of course, this is also SVP initiated that have a history of racist/prejudiced initiatives which adds to my unease on the vote

I'd add that in most Muslim countries burqas are not common, this is an extreme measure that somehow we see more & more here - I always assumed they were Saudis tbh

I recall last week going into town and seeing so many people with masks and thinking about the March 7 vote and how I just didn't approve of people in 'hiding' in public. Even with masks and nothing to do with religion, it's unsettling
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  #175  
Old 10.02.2021, 10:19
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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If it was a ban against burkas, I'd vote yes. Niqabs are another matter simply because I don't the motivation behind it. However, I'd prefer if women chose not to wear the niqab when travelling internationally simply because it inspires female oppression.

And here's another question: what if men chose to wear niqabs? Would you feel differently about the matter?

I'm still on the fence about this.
To me the niqabs/burkas inspire totally different traditions and a very patriarchal society - which, let's admit it, we have it in Europe too to a greater or lesser degree, depending on where and which social strata, but tbh I don't have problems with it if that's what women choose. As I'm not a big fan of showing a lot of skin in order to please the other gender and be "successful" or popular (bleah, yuck! yuck!), so I guess I can see some benefits in being allowed to show as much as you want.
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Old 10.02.2021, 10:26
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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...is not just one case, that is wide spread through Islam and if you read the Quran, then you should know that Islam is religion and culture at the same time...
…I hope that Swiss people will vote as they doing always, wise...and will avoid to transform Switzerland in another Luton ruled by Sharia Laws...
There are no British cities, towns, villages, streets or alleyways ruled according to religious law. Idiots can paste whatever they like on lampposts and the council usually tears them down. The fact that you dredge up a 10 year old story from the Daily Mail shows your bias.
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  #177  
Old 10.02.2021, 10:41
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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Article is behind a paywall, but I wonder what qualifies a Muslim UK politician to pass judgement on a Swiss internal matter. I wonder how many years she lived in Switzerland and how many Swedish newspapers she reads daily. Or whether she is maybe just regurgitating her own uninformed intolerant prejudice while going through the motion of preaching tolerance to others.

EDIT: I just managed to read the article. She is even more clueless than I thought, even getting some pretty simple facts wrong. At least she manages to twice mention she is writing a book about her hair being pink. So the piece is just a plug to sell her book and she is using the Swiss vote for her own ends rather than actually having something interesting to say about it.
Indeed, the opinion piece lacks nuance, like the following section:

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If the ban on burqas and niqabs comes into force, what message will this send to the world about Switzerland? A beautiful country that relies heavily on tourism needs to attract foreign visitors, not deter them — particularly given the dire effects of the pandemic on the country’s tourism industry.
Now consider Morocco bans burkas with the very same objective: protect the tourism industry.

Also consider than even Saudi Arabia relaxes their decency code to increase tourism income https://www.reuters.com/article/saud...-idUSL5N26H3J4 Albeit, the business-wise approach of Saudi Arabia is not politically feasible around here. People would raise hell if there were different rules in CH for residents and tourists.
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  #178  
Old 10.02.2021, 11:25
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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no to the burka ban tbh. i dont think banning face coverings in public is a good idea generally, except if you're the security services and whatever other businesses and institutions these connect with. the way protest and certain political behaviour is policed and increasingly criminalised, covering up your face when it's time to protest is a good idea i would think.

and tbh, re the muslim women, i wouldn't have an opinion really until i hear from muslim women, lots of them, which i never do and no-one seems to GAF about anyway. everyone just assumes on their behalf.

IMO generally speaking women's clothes and appearances have been policed formally and informally since forever. remember those pervert cops making a muslim girl leave the beach in Nice coz what? i dont know exaclty, she wasnt showing her tits maybe. well in france in the 60s there were riots against girls wearing mini skirts, and girls were attacked for wearing them.

its not 'make up your mind' or 'hypocricy'. its just more of the same policing of women by insecure men.
I do love a well thought out, balanced description.

Story behind: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-on-nice-beach
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  #179  
Old 10.02.2021, 17:01
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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There are no British cities, towns, villages, streets or alleyways ruled according to religious law. Idiots can paste whatever they like on lampposts and the council usually tears them down. The fact that you dredge up a 10 year old story from the Daily Mail shows your bias.
The same idiots can also set up sharia courts in their back rooms and punish people in all sorts of ways. Families and closely knit communities are very good at making sure news doesn't get out. Just because its not in the headline news doesn't mean it would never happen.

The fact that as you say, the council takes these signs down, indicates to me that they are afraid of individual groups establishing their turf. Stuff that irrelvant idiots put up doesn't tend to get taken down particularly quickly, if at all. When I recently visited my home town in the Uk I was very surprised to see a graffiti that I remember seeing there as a youth had somehow survived, albeit heavily faded. The guy who painted it (or claimed he did) went to my school. But stuff that the council thinks is threatening or hate speech gets taken care of within days.
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Old 10.02.2021, 23:39
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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There are no British cities, towns, villages, streets or alleyways ruled according to religious law. Idiots can paste whatever they like on lampposts and the council usually tears them down. The fact that you dredge up a 10 year old story from the Daily Mail shows your bias.
…Mr. Castro been myself with my wife in 2009 in Luton, attracted by low price on rent , then after that visit I understood why is cheap...every body leaving cause of turning in Muslim town...when walking on the street everybody looking to us with hate, special to my blonde blue eyed wife with uncovered hair...then a Muslim women approached and showed to the poster in the window of the shop...I want to make picture, but my wife stopped me and we head off quick to the station...you right, picture are from Daily Mail, same news paper that make Brits hate me: an Eastern European…and yes you right again I don't like Muslims cause they pillaged my native country 500 years in row...in the country from where I am women's when go to church covering them heads, by that is there...
…I am for integrating into society that adopted you...
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