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Old 19.01.2021, 09:39
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Vote 7th March 2021

  • Burkaban. No more face coverings (which is amusing since we're all wearing masks)
  • E-ID Initiative. This will allow residents as well as citizens to prove their ID on the Internet (I guess superseding SuisseID in some way)
  • Trade agreement with Indonesia. Removing customs charges both ways to open the market between Switzerland and Indonesia

From me, it's a no, yes, IDGAS.....

(let's not get the Burkaban discussion too mental please )
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Old 19.01.2021, 09:45
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

We already have had a burka ban for a few years now.

Tom
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Old 19.01.2021, 09:47
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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We already have had a burka ban for a few years now.

Tom

Allover CH or just Ticino?
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Old 19.01.2021, 09:51
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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  • Burkaban. No more face coverings (which is amusing since we're all wearing masks)
  • E-ID Initiative. This will allow residents as well as citizens to prove their ID on the Internet (I guess superseding SuisseID in some way)
  • Trade agreement with Indonesia. Removing customs charges both ways to open the market between Switzerland and Indonesia

From me, it's a no, yes, IDGAS.....

(let's not get the Burkaban discussion too mental please )

Not read anything about them yet...
But initial reaction would be;

No
Yes
Yes
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Old 19.01.2021, 09:55
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

Yes
Yes
Yes
  #6  
Old 19.01.2021, 10:26
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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Allover CH or just Ticino?
Just in Ticino ... black ghosts floating around Luzern, Zurich and Bern all Summer (outside pandemic times). Husbands alongside in shorts, t-shirts and flip flops.
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Old 19.01.2021, 10:27
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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We already have had a burka ban for a few years now.

Tom
Aye, Tom, Ticino-based ban.....this is a national one. I was down there when it came into force and saw no difference Maybe if you hang around Fox Town you might notice

I'm more pro-choice and against what I think are unnecessary laws.
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Old 19.01.2021, 11:09
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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Just in Ticino ... black ghosts floating around Luzern, Zurich and Bern all Summer (outside pandemic times). Husbands alongside in shorts, t-shirts and flip flops.
There is no need to insult them. The government for one is happy to welcome wealthy tourists from the Middle East and what they wear is up to them, ban their garb and they will just go elsewhere.

How would we feel if the govt of Dubai asked tourists to cover up visible tattoos? outraged I'm guessing.
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Old 19.01.2021, 11:13
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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There is no need to insult them. The government for one is happy to welcome wealthy tourists from the Middle East and what they wear is up to them, ban their garb and they will just go elsewhere.
How was I insulting them? I feel sorry for them, they are having to wear head to toe fabric in hot summer weather, while their husbands can look like they are out for a day on the beach...
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Old 19.01.2021, 11:17
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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How was I insulting them? I feel sorry for them, they are having to wear head to toe fabric in hot summer weather, while their husbands can look like they are out for a day on the beach...
I think it's down to the "floating ghosts" comment which does not bring your sympathy for the situation the woman is in at all.
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Old 19.01.2021, 11:20
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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How was I insulting them? I feel sorry for them, they are having to wear head to toe fabric in hot summer weather, while their husbands can look like they are out for a day on the beach...
They come from a much warmer country so Switzerland in the summer will feel fine. And one of the reasons they wear black is because their clothing can be much looser and thinner without being transparent. So although it seems counterintuitive, there is a reason.

I understand your concern and I am not a fan of the niqab, but I am a fan of freedom of choice and a holiday to Switzerland should not be a platform for the whole debate because as I said, they will just not come.
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Old 19.01.2021, 11:20
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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I think it's down to the "floating ghosts" comment which does not bring your sympathy for the situation the woman is in at all.
Actually it does ... they are just ghosts in society, with no ability to express their individuality or be seen as fellow human beings. They are "present", but not really there.

My take on it is the same way the French do, if you cannot respect local cultures and customs, you have no place in coming here. I wouldn't visit Saudi (ever) and expect to walk down the street in my summer attire.

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They come from a much warmer country so Switzerland in the summer will feel fine.
Hmmm, sure - why don't you give it a try? If you are a fan of freedom of choice, there isn't much choice for the women of these societies.
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Old 19.01.2021, 11:20
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

- Trade agreement with Indonesia. Removing customs charges both ways to open the market between Switzerland and Indonesia

More palmoil from Indonesia? No, thanks!
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Old 19.01.2021, 11:24
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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Allover CH or just Ticino?
TI and at least SG, not sure about the rest.

Tom
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Old 19.01.2021, 11:31
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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Actually it does ... they are just ghosts in society, with no ability to express their individuality or be seen as fellow human beings. They are "present", but not really there.

My take on it is the same way the French do, if you cannot respect local cultures and customs, you have no place in coming here. I wouldn't visit Saudi (ever) and expect to walk down the street in my summer attire.



Hmmm, sure - why don't you give it a try? If you are a fan of freedom of choice, there isn't much choice for the women of these societies.
you should look beyond the overclothes and check out the eyes, the hands and the feet. They are often wearing designer gear and plenty of make-up.

The West tried to impose its values on Iraq many years ago. Whether you liked the situation there or not, all the West did was destabilise the entire region. As Hans von Sponeck said to me in 2007, just after Saddam Hussain was executed, the only thing that would have brought stability back to the region was a dictator, certainly short-term. We cannot just roll in and force our western values on people.

This for me is similar. We cannot force someone else's issue for them.
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Old 19.01.2021, 11:37
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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you should look beyond the overclothes and check out the eyes, the hands and the feet. They are often wearing designer gear and plenty of make-up.

The West tried to impose its values on Iraq many years ago. Whether you liked the situation there or not, all the West did was destabilise the entire region. As Hans von Sponeck said to me in 2007, just after Saddam Hussain was executed, the only thing that would have brought stability back to the region was a dictator, certainly short-term. We cannot just roll in and force our western values on people.

This for me is similar. We cannot force someone else's issue for them.
I am very aware that many of them have better designer gear on underneath than I could ever aspire to obtain. That doesn't make it right that they can't show it.

We are not trying to go into Iraq and change things, we are asking that they adapt to our cultures when they visit us. Big difference! As a woman, it is very unsettling to see them subjected to such nonsense in my neighborhood. But I guess two dudes with notorious misogynists as their profile name/picture wouldn't be able to sympathize with how that feels.
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Old 19.01.2021, 11:39
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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you should look beyond the overclothes and check out the eyes, the hands and the feet. They are often wearing designer gear and plenty of make-up.

The West tried to impose its values on Iraq many years ago. Whether you liked the situation there or not, all the West did was destabilise the entire region. As Hans von Sponeck said to me in 2007, just after Saddam Hussain was executed, the only thing that would have brought stability back to the region was a dictator, certainly short-term. We cannot just roll in and force our western values on people.

This for me is similar. We cannot force someone else's issue for them.
The more extreme example was the carpet bombing of war ravaged Afghanistan back in 2002 which was cheerled by some mainstream feminists in the US. They even circulated a petition calling for it to continue until all women in the country were liberated from the Taliban. You can guess who the majority of the casualties were.
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Old 19.01.2021, 11:39
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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How would we feel if the govt of Dubai asked tourists to cover up visible tattoos? outraged I'm guessing.
To be fair, there are many countries that do indeed impose severe restrictions on clothing for visitors, especially about what's allowed to be exposed.

Not saying that justifies anything, but it's not a good comparison to make to argue against a burka ban either.
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Old 19.01.2021, 11:41
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

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But I guess two dudes with notorious misogynists as their profile name/picture wouldn't be able to sympathize with how that feels.
I've tried to offer a structured and thoughtful response and you resort to such comments.

You do know I am not really Sean Connery and he's dead, right?
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Old 19.01.2021, 11:42
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Re: Vote 7th March 2021

Banning the Burka depends on why.

Banning it because Muslim women do not want to wear it and they are forced to - them Id vote yes.

Banning it because westerners dont like it or feel threatened by it - then Id vote no.
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