 | | | 
16.03.2021, 10:27
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,516
Groaned at 2,578 Times in 1,840 Posts
Thanked 39,650 Times in 18,688 Posts
| | Re: Equal rights for women | Quote: | |  | | | How would you vote? | | | | | To lower it to 60.
Tom
| This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post: | | 
16.03.2021, 10:35
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
| | Re: Equal rights for women | Quote: | |  | | | That's the same theory as everyone should become an entrepreneur. I understand your point but it's not a solution for everyone. Not everyone is a good negotiator or in a position to negotiate, for that we have unions and tariff systems.
It's a different story when people are in competitive or high-level jobs. For example, I would expect a managing director to be able to negotiate his/her own salary. | | | | | Unions & tariff's lead to a lower pay for the best people, who then negotiate for themselves & earn more.
I always earned more than the person I replaced, by about 70% for my job in Zurich, the Swiss person I replaced was useless, however had held the job for 10 years.
If negotiating & putting across an argument are valuable skills, people should spend time working on these skills.
| This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post: | | 
16.03.2021, 10:37
| Forum Veteran | | Join Date: May 2017 Location: Olten
Posts: 602
Groaned at 22 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 1,159 Times in 488 Posts
| | Re: Equal rights for women | Quote: | |  | | |
This is a country (my country, I might add) where men finally "allowed" women to vote like, yesterday ...
Switzerland is a man based country, much more so than other countries. General assumption is that "women should stay home", "raise kids", etc.
So no, I don't agree with women taking the toll this time. Again.
| | | | | I wasn't even born then (1971,lets forget about AI), so it certainly wasn't yesterday.
As a young parent, I can say that you migh be surprised how much pressure my wife gets to go back into work instead of staying at home. And we live out in the sticks. So from my perspective that changed a lot.
Agreed, some systems, like schools, are assuming that one parent (yes, gender neutral) is at home and takes responsability for their spawn | 
16.03.2021, 10:42
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: CH
Posts: 11,320
Groaned at 400 Times in 326 Posts
Thanked 17,320 Times in 8,767 Posts
| | Re: Equal rights for women | Quote: | |  | | | Is the problem women negotiate their own salaries? | | | | | I'm not sure is only the gender - might be the culture too. You have no idea how many men are crap at negotiating salaries, work conditions etc. But basically, yes. Women are less assertive. If they do negotiate, they're witches. If they don't, it's their fault. But same goes for men too, sometimes. Damned if you do it, damned if you don't. | Quote: | |  | | | To lower it to 60.
Tom | | | | | Haha, of course. What does the population ageing rate allows us?
| The following 2 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post: | | 
16.03.2021, 10:53
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: canton ZH
Posts: 13,131
Groaned at 218 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 15,264 Times in 7,847 Posts
| | Re: Equal rights for women | Quote: | |  | | | Swiss women now need to wait until 65 to retire (same as men)! 
Tom | | | | | That's what came out in the "Ständerat". Now the subject goes on the the "Nationalrat" .... so your info the way you phrased it is wrong!
Personally I don't know why woman should be retired at 64. If it's because of the amount of more work for even less pay we do all our lives, we should get full pension at 50 | The following 6 users would like to thank curley for this useful post: | | 
16.03.2021, 10:59
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
| | Re: Equal rights for women | Quote: | |  | | | Damned if you do it, damned if you don't.
| | | | | You must not care about what others think, that in itself is probably the biggest issue.
I know a company who advertised for 2 jobs almost identical job descriptions (different references) one with a salary 15% higher. 4 times as many applicants for the lower paying job fairly evenly distributed between men / women. The higher paying job had only men applying.
| The following 3 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post: | | 
16.03.2021, 11:03
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Baden
Posts: 3,345
Groaned at 67 Times in 54 Posts
Thanked 5,739 Times in 2,182 Posts
| | Re: Equal rights for women | Quote: | |  | | | You must not care about what others think, that in itself is probably the biggest issue.
I know a company who advertised for 2 jobs almost identical job descriptions (different references) one with a salary 15% higher. 4 times as many applicants for the lower paying job fairly evenly distributed between men / women. The higher paying job had only men applying. | | | | | #AnecdotesAreNotEvidence
| The following 5 users would like to thank Ouchboy for this useful post: | | 
16.03.2021, 11:04
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,488
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,435 Times in 10,578 Posts
| | Re: Equal rights for women | Quote: | |  | | | You must not care about what others think, that in itself is probably the biggest issue. | | | | |
This. While not everyone wants to hire a free thinker, a free thinker can always up his negotiation skills to get hired. Both men and women.
And whatever other genders. | This user would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post: | | 
16.03.2021, 11:10
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
| | Re: Equal rights for women | Quote: | |  | | | #AnecdotesAreNotEvidence | | | | | Since there is no business argument to pay more than needed, I believe people are paid roughly what they are worth as the job market is fairly efficient.
| This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post: | | 
16.03.2021, 11:14
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,516
Groaned at 2,578 Times in 1,840 Posts
Thanked 39,650 Times in 18,688 Posts
| | Re: Equal rights for women | Quote: | |  | | | Haha, of course. What does the population ageing rate allows us? | | | | | Well, because of COVID, life expectancy is going down, so should be no problem to lower it!
Tom
| The following 2 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post: | | 
16.03.2021, 11:18
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Baden
Posts: 3,345
Groaned at 67 Times in 54 Posts
Thanked 5,739 Times in 2,182 Posts
| | Re: Equal rights for women | Quote: | |  | | | Since there is no business argument to pay more than needed, I believe people are paid roughly what they are worth as the job market is fairly efficient. | | | | | that is a non sequitur. people paid roughly what they are worth is no argument to your anecdote of men only applying to the higher paying job
| The following 2 users would like to thank Ouchboy for this useful post: | | 
16.03.2021, 11:27
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
| | Re: Equal rights for women | Quote: | |  | | | that is a non sequitur. people paid roughly what they are worth is no argument to your anecdote of men only applying to the higher paying job | | | | | Only 1 women has applied to Fundsmith as a fund manager, they don't advertise & rely on submissions.
| 
16.03.2021, 11:31
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Baden
Posts: 3,345
Groaned at 67 Times in 54 Posts
Thanked 5,739 Times in 2,182 Posts
| | Re: Equal rights for women | Quote: | |  | | | Only 1 women has applied to Fundsmith as a fund manager, they don't advertise & rely on submissions. | | | | | do you have a statistical analysis of applications of jobs per gender across any field?
| This user would like to thank Ouchboy for this useful post: | | 
16.03.2021, 11:34
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2019 Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 4,268
Groaned at 72 Times in 67 Posts
Thanked 5,969 Times in 2,812 Posts
| | Re: Equal rights for women | Quote: | |  | | | Yes, I've always wonder why anyone would every hire a man when they can get a woman to do the same job for less.
Something just doesn't add up.
Tom | | | | | It did not happened in your generation. But I see a bit of that idea of hire a woman/immigrant at 15-20% discount on mine. I now know the numbers at my job and I get paid the same as a woman. I can do better and always negotiating in that direction.
And it's a damned avalanche for my nephews at 20 YO. I try to explain to them that they need to be really competitive, either by low price or high specialization. If they're too picky about income or job conditions after college (this year), a woman will just take whatever is offered and they'll become one of these guys complaining about not finding a job for several years.
| The following 2 users would like to thank Axa for this useful post: | | 
16.03.2021, 11:43
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
| | Re: Equal rights for women | Quote: | |  | | | do you have a statistical analysis of applications of jobs per gender across any field? | | | | | What I can tell you is 67% of all part time employment is filled by women, so I would suggest more women apply for part time jobs than men.
Therefore it's not a surprise that women with full time jobs represent 37.9% of the workforce.
Men would appear to work more hours than women, so it would make sense that the average man earns more than the average woman per year, but not necessarily per hour. | Quote: | |  | | | And it's a damned avalanche for my nephews at 20 YO. I try to explain to them that they need to be really competitive, either by low price or high specialization. If they're too picky about income or job conditions after college (this year), a woman will just take whatever is offered and they'll become one of these guys complaining about not finding a job for several years. | | | | | Looks like women will earn more than men before long if that trend continues.
| The following 2 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post: | | 
16.03.2021, 11:45
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Baden
Posts: 3,345
Groaned at 67 Times in 54 Posts
Thanked 5,739 Times in 2,182 Posts
| | Re: Equal rights for women | Quote: | |  | | | What I can tell you is 67% of all part time employment is filled by women, so I would suggest more women apply for part time jobs than men.
Therefore it's not a surprise that women with full time jobs represent 37.9% of the workforce.
Men would appear to work more hours than women, so it would make sense that the average man earns more than the average woman per year, but not necessarily per hour. | | | | | where , in what place, what population? in all the world? what is your reference?
that is still not evidence of anything. it could be they apply for the same jobs as men and failing to be placed have to then apply for part time jobs. without data your argument does not stand
[citation needed]
| The following 2 users would like to thank Ouchboy for this useful post: | | 
16.03.2021, 11:49
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2019 Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 4,268
Groaned at 72 Times in 67 Posts
Thanked 5,969 Times in 2,812 Posts
| | Re: Equal rights for women | Quote: | |  | | | Looks like women will earn more than men before long if that trend continues. | | | | | So far it looks like a race to the bottom, no winners. If women earn more will be because their employment rate would be higher than men, not because they earn per hour/week/month.
| 
16.03.2021, 11:54
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
| | Re: Equal rights for women | Quote: | |  | | | So far it looks like a race to the bottom, no winners. If women earn more will be because their employment rate would be higher than men, not because they earn per hour/week/month. | | | | | Why do you think the stock market has risen so strongly? There is very much a winner as future employee costs look like falling, savings with office space & A.I.
| 
16.03.2021, 12:04
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2019 Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 4,268
Groaned at 72 Times in 67 Posts
Thanked 5,969 Times in 2,812 Posts
| | Re: Equal rights for women | Quote: | |  | | | Why do you think the stock market has risen so strongly? There is very much a winner as future employee costs look like falling, savings with office space & A.I. | | | | | Funny short-term trend since we live in a services economy. If the income of employees goes to low, who'll buy all the services and goods from stock listed companies. Stock owners can make a great consumption effort. But how much can rich people consume to compensate for the lost consumption of a contracting middle-class?
| The following 3 users would like to thank Axa for this useful post: | | 
16.03.2021, 12:21
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
| | Re: Equal rights for women | Quote: | |  | | | Funny short-term trend since we live in a services economy. If the income of employees goes to low, who'll buy all the services and goods from stock listed companies. Stock owners can make a great consumption effort. But how much can rich people consume to compensate for the lost consumption of a contracting middle-class? | | | | | It greatly depends on what the companies you own sell. Avoid Consumer Discretionary would be the take away here, selling toothpaste or dog food is different to selling cars.
| This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post: | |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | | Thread Tools | | Display Modes | Linear Mode |
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off | | | All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:15. | |